Geopolitical Risk

[BlackPeter]

Appear russian Attack Helicopters are making life hard for the UKE's in the SOUTH.

Is this where A10's, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache  and F16 combined would have been useful...

One BBC commentator says old F16 arnt up to the JOB... lets wait and see but it looks like the UKE's dont own the DAY yet...

Just wondering what happened to the good old Stingers? Easy to operate, can be carried by one man and ideal to take a helicopter (or even a low flying jet) out of the sky.

And sure, the original from Raytheon is not cheap (used to be something like $100k - but still much cheaper than a fighter plane or an attack helicopter), but there are a lot of cheaper alternatives around these days, and as long as you try to hit only a (relatively) slow moving helicopter anything with a heat seeking sensor should do. 

Didn't they give them to UKE?

[Raven]

Yes, UKE has lots of MANPADS like Stinger. Initially used to great effect. I think part of the problem is range. Helicopter stays just out of MANPAD range and uses its own comparatively much longer ranged missiles, etc.

[mcdongle]

Ukranians are running out of everything....  30% of western supplied equipment has been destroyed so far..

[Waltzing]

Its a FOG for sure...

will be waiting for  a PERUN webiner on the whole thing at some stage,

[Waltzing]

From the front lines .. Tankers in action..

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tank-liberate-donetsk-villages-/32466241.html

RPG!!!  UKE tankers on attack with incoming RPG's..

[Waltzing]

Tank takes an RPG HIT and keeps going ... Hit reactive armour..

[Waltzing]

Have Anti Aircraft Gun... Have Truck... We See you!!! And Take That!!!
 
 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/20/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-putin-counter-offensive/

[snapiti]

Just wondering what happened to the good old Stingers? Easy to operate, can be carried by one man and ideal to take a helicopter (or even a low flying jet) out of the sky.

And sure, the original from Raytheon is not cheap (used to be something like $100k - but still much cheaper than a fighter plane or an attack helicopter), but there are a lot of cheaper alternatives around these days, and as long as you try to hit only a (relatively) slow moving helicopter anything with a heat seeking sensor should do. 

Didn't they give them to UKE?

Russain helicopters are well equip to deal with anti aircraft fire. They carry shit loads of light and heat decoys to render the infrared and heat seeking missiles useless 

[BlackPeter]

Russain helicopters are well equip to deal with anti aircraft fire. They carry shit loads of light and heat decoys to render the infrared and heat seeking missiles useless 

Interesting - so, you are saying that while Russian recruits need to buy their own winter gear, sleeping bags and body armour, while Russian trucks often get stuck because their tyres split due to old age and while they scrapped their last hurrah of tanks from the rust piles of the late 1950íes and early 1960íes, Mama Russia puts instead all the money which does not flow to the corrupt oligarchs into high tech anti rocket equipment for helicopters?

How do you know?

[kiwi2007]

Ukraine's problems with the Alligator attack chopper are twofold.
First its missiles outrange Ukraine's manpads - Stinger's max range is 8km as against Russia's VIKHR anti tank missile which is 14 km.
Secondly, and most importantly,  manpads are not much use at night, which is when Ukraine wants to attack, as the operator needs to see the target  before engaging it.

That said Russia has lost 35 Alligators since Feb last year so, if the operator can see it and it's in range, they do fall out the sky.

Unfortunately my feeling is that this is headed for a stalemate and at some stage the Ukrainian politicians will have to exhibit a degree of pragmatism. 

[Waltzing]

30 Years war...

Yep could be stop start for a long long time ... cold war 2 and half ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

This is just another round of the former...

[Waltzing]

Another 2 to 3 Year at a 100 Billion dollars a year.... right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEiI2cDNOnA

On the front lines ... the real cost in lives...

https://kyivindependent.com/inside-ukraines-costly-mission-to-grind-down-russia-near-bakhmut/

 

[BlackPeter]

Another 2 to 3 Year at a 100 Billion dollars a year.... right...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEiI2cDNOnA

On the front lines ... the real cost in lives...

https://kyivindependent.com/inside-ukraines-costly-mission-to-grind-down-russia-near-bakhmut/

 

I guess the tragic is that the appeasers used the same arguments when Hitler first took Austria, than Czechia, than half of Poland, ... and look where they ended.

They always said, just be pragmatic, Hitler only wants Austria (Czecia, Poland, France, The Netherlands, .... surely he won't go further and we don't want to risk loosing valuable human life, just give him what he wants.

Great ideals, but unfortunately - what they got was the most terrible, most expensive and most murderous war of all times.

I don't think it is now the time to play the appeasing game again and "be pragmatic" against Putin. Any compromise will just encourage him to prepare for the next attack to add more land to his empire. The only thing he understands is strength and determination.

No conqueror in history has been stopped by loosing interest in acquiring more power or stealing more land. They all only got stopped by determined resistance, and the longer it takes until they feel real resistance, the more people have to die.

We can put everything in now - and have a short and painful war (which mainly UKE will conduct if we give them the resources), or we can keep sitting on the pot - and the war will be long, extended, impact on many more countries and the losses will just pile up.

There is only one way to stop Putin - and this is to make sure he looses this war. Better earlier than later.

[Raven]

There is only one way to stop Putin - and this is to make sure he looses this war. Better earlier than later.

100% agree

[Waltzing]

It looks like the UKE's havnt got the hang of combined ops yet according to some Xperts or they simply havnt got the Kit to cover everything.

instance of where they got stuck out in the open with Modern Kit with no Air defence cover.

 ranking LT Col in Armoured NZ told me he could not understand the night attack that went ahead with out air defence cover unit that resulted in the pile up...

He though some commander did not get the training needed or high up pressure force someone to send the units into OPS without mobile air defence cover resulting in that pile up.. real stuff up according to him... total you know what ..

waste of good equipment and a unit that was not ready to handle the job according to him.

unless something gives this thing could effect markets for ages..