TESLA

[KW]

Tesla has enjoyed profit margins at the company level that are roughly double that of its US and European competitors.  But when comparing profits on EV cars only, Tesla is streets ahead of the competition.  Which old school manufacturer will be the first to fold?

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/visualizing-teslas-unrivaled-profit-margins

[Basil]

Tesla has enjoyed profit margins at the company level that are roughly double that of its US and European competitors.  But when comparing profits on EV cars only, Tesla is streets ahead of the competition.  Which old school manufacturer will be the first to fold?

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/visualizing-teslas-unrivaled-profit-margins

I think the key issue here is this is past tense.  BYD (#1 in China) and other Chinese manufactures are really putting the acid on Tesla pricing now.  In addition, many of the established manufacturers are starting to build out their EV range and making excellent very high caliber EV's, (e.g. Google BMW i4M50 reviews) and most of Tesla models are looking extremely tired and dated.   Tesla are going to come in for a massive tsunami of competition in the years ahead.

You'd expect them to have record margins while they enjoyed first mover advantage but in my view that advantage is disappearing quickly.  How many times has Tesla cut prices in recent months? Sorry I have lost count.  I reckon somewhere around half their abnormally high margins have already gone with price cuts recently announced.

You can see this unfolding in their forward order book in the link you posted.  Forward orders have ostensibly almost completely evaporated in the last 6 months as customers chase fresher designed EV's from Tesla's competitions at more competitive prices.  Tesla's models are so old the only card they have to play to stimulate demand is cutting prices again and again.  Their days of high margins are ending and very quickly at that. 

[KW]

Tesla is taking the Amazon approach.  Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default.  Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out. 

And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.

[Buzz]

Tesla is taking the Amazon approach.  Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default.  Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out. 

And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.

Also, what some people don't know is that the Tesla is a completely unique monocoque design, specifically built for electric along with substantial savings in the manufacturing process. That contrasts with traditional manufacturers who are basically converting the drivetrain of ICE vehicles to Electric, without changing the underlying architecture of the vehicle, hence sustaining manufacturing costs. The tesla's are very clever engineering, and those profit stats will be concerning for their competition, as nothing moves fast in this industry, a decade will fly by before the other's catch up to the economics. By then, hydrogen or some other fuel will also be prevalent.

[BlackPeter]

Tesla is taking the Amazon approach.  Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default.  Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out. 

And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.

Amazon approach? The thing about amazon was that they managed to clip the ticket while leaving the cost for supplying the product to their business partners (similar like Uber, AirBnB and many others). Tesla however is doing the building and marketing of their product and they carry the full cost. In the long run there is nothing competitive about being run by a  moron without soft skills.

[Basil]

Tesla is taking the Amazon approach.  Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default.  Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out. 

And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.

Sorry but I am not "buying" that.  I'm not interested enough to compare prices overseas but here in N.Z. we have never seen so many hoards of very late Model 3's coming on to the market second hand (Trade me has 79 of them) and Tesla N.Z. have a LOT of new and second hand stock.

Its not surprising when such a tired, dated and quirky model is coming up against freshly designed alternatives like the Kia EV6 and Hyundai INIOQ.  BYD are killing them on price with their vehicle winning independent awards, having the latest blade battery and nearly $20,000 less than a model Y
https://www.bydauto.co.nz/atto-3

Tesla's S is a design that's more than a decade old, the 3 and Y are quirky unusual designs and there are widespread reports of poor quality control, and appallingly bad after sales support and back-up.

Musk is shooting himself in the foot with his obsession with all things Twitter.  If he doesn't get back in the drivers seat with Tesla and come up with some fresh designs and push the technology boat out further, (how many years has he been telling porkies about being able to build a full self driving cars now?) the strong growth he's experienced will start to decline.

The bottom line is early adopters with money who wanted to buy a model S, 3, or Y have already done so and when they come to replace that vehicle, they will want something fresh and new.

[KW]

Sorry but I am not "buying" that. 

Tesla is absolutely killing it in NZ - seems plenty of Kiwi's are indeed "buying that" lol

You cannot view this attachment.

[KW]

Also its most likely that the reason why there is a sudden increase in second hand Model 3's on the market is probably because people are trading them in for the Model Y.  Tesla has sold 4226 Model Y in just 4 months, and still cleans up the closest competitor  (BYD 1685).

"Tesla Model Y (from $66,875*)
While the past few years have been nothing but Model 3, there's a new Tesla on the block. And it's wasted no time in usurping the Model 3. After all, it's a compact SUV, which Kiwis much, much prefer over sedans, and it's only fractionally more expensive than the Model 3. It also carries about all the same features and levels of performance as the already impressive Model 3.
So it's no surprise to discover that it has managed to become the number one EV in New Zealand in just three short months."

https://www.canstar.co.nz/nz-car-insurance/top-selling-electric-cars-in-nz/

[Basil]

In white, drive away off the Tesla website 2 minutes ago, cheapest model Y is $77.987 https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/modely/design#overview

Why anyone would pay that when you can get a Kia EV6 for the same money is beyond my comprehension.
https://kia.co.nz/vehicles/kia-ev6/

[KW]

goddammit - now I'm getting spammed with EV advertising 

[Basil]

LOL - Plenty of life left in ICE powered vehicles.  If they write off Mrs hounds vehicle, I'll probably be recommending this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lUpnBvsYPI

[KW]

Thanks to FB and Google, I think I have now seen every EV car being sold in NZ (except Tesla, because they don't pay for advertising) lol
And my conclusion is that they are all pretty ugly and boring.  It seems 70's styling is back in    I'm not really sold on the Ioniq 5 or EV6 styling.  So far the only one I really like is the Ford Mustang (which ironically is the one that loses money for Ford)
On the plus side, I did get invited to apply for a Hyundai market research session with free drinks, nibbles and $100 - here's hoping I get selected 

[Buzz]

Tesla in the 6 months Jul-Dec 2022 massively dominate the BEV new car sales, at 68% with BYD 19%, MG 10% and Kia 5%. Will be interesting to see how this changes over time.

[Basil]

Thanks to FB and Google, I think I have now seen every EV car being sold in NZ (except Tesla, because they don't pay for advertising) lol
And my conclusion is that they are all pretty ugly and boring.  It seems 70's styling is back in    I'm not really sold on the Ioniq 5 or EV6 styling.  So far the only one I really like is the Ford Mustang (which ironically is the one that loses money for Ford)
On the plus side, I did get invited to apply for a Hyundai market research session with free drinks, nibbles and $100 - here's hoping I get selected 

Don't think it will be cocktails though, you need to get invited to a Mercedes-Benz or BMW event for that, ask me how I know 
I quite like the Kia EV6 but the base model performance is a bit too sedate for my liking so if I did anything it would need to be on the all wheel drive model which is about $100K which gets me back to thinking I quite like my existing vehicle, so why bother.    Had a look online at that electric Mustang the other day.
Looks bloated and overweight to my eye.  If you want a Mustang I reckon, get a real one with a real V8 engine.  Drove one a while back.  They go hard and sound super raucous. Why would anyone would buy an electric pretend / "neutered" Mustang when you can have the real thing which is so much more fun ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIeqpG0Ef8o

[Waltzing]

Yes try driving the box on wheel hire cars that are hybrids. Great mileage but really they are computers in a wheeled box... boring doesnt cover it be many women love them.....