OCA - Oceania Healthcare

[Basil]

No issue at all, merely posting a news article with my thoughts on it. 
It will be fascinating to see if there is sufficient market demand at that sort of pricing.

[Basil]

Thought about this a bit more.  $550 a week is not too bad considering everything it covers.
Brent says the units are incredibly good value and every unit has a view.  2 Bedroom units start from only $1,730,000.
Probably good they went with hybrid Jaguar's...wouldn't want the fire risk of electric ones.  Cool they have chauffeurs to drive you around.  Maybe I could train them up to skipper my boat as well. Wonder if you can bring a Beagle dog along and the Butler could walk it for you in Glover park on the wet days when I couldn't be bothered?  That would seal the deal and be really cool.
https://oceaniahealthcare.co.nz/location/the-helier

[Ferg]

The Helier is pitched at "old money" who won't bat an eye at the purchase price or the fees.  This is all about exclusivity - it is nothing more and nothing less than that.  The prices will be chump change for some, even the top floors with their eye watering prices.

[Teitei]

The Helier is pitched at "old money" who won't bat an eye at the purchase price or the fees.  This is all about exclusivity - it is nothing more and nothing less than that.  The prices will be chump change for some, even the top floors with their eye watering prices.

With that kind of money, why stay at a retirement village?

Retire to one of the Asian countries like Thailand and live like a king in the true & full sense of the word.

[Basil]

Probably because most people have family and friends here and they say that's what really matters.
When you start drilling down into what the $550 per week covers, including rates, insurance, power, internet, weekly cleaning, running costs of all communal facilities, exterior maintenance, grounds maintenance, chauffer driven Jaguar, butler service etc etc, the opex seems not too unreasonable to me if those are the sort of services you want in that upmarket environment.

Not sure what tiny view of the sea you get for $1,730,000...probably better to aim for a decent view in a better unit at $2.5-$3.0m.  As others have noted, that's chump change for some especially old money in that area. They'll probably sell over the due course of time (2-3 years?) and OCA will do well from this village over time.  A while back I heard about a certain plastic surgeon who buys a new BMW 7 series every year and makes over $1m a year that lives out that way.  Probably suit that sort of MINO, (money is no object), retiree, perfectly.

From the point of view of the shares however, it's the substantial number of their unprofitable basic care villages that looks set to dog the company for many years to come.  Not much chance of selling them I reckon.  Brent needs to start thinking outside the box.  Now he's finished reimagining the lifestyle living at the Helier it's time to get his hands dirty and get down into the other end of the market and start reimagining the old unprofitable basic care villages they can't sell as perhaps best suited for emergency housing for WINZ clients.  At least that way they would get a return on those assets.

[winner (n)]

I see The Hellier has a lifestyle co-ordinator for personalised event planning, and access to companions for outings and events.

Wonder what that actually covers?

[Untamed]

Possibly things like arranging a birthday dinner/party/celebration. Or an afternoon tea for a resident's family or friends visiting from out of town. Or something similar for a club or group a resident belongs to. The kind of "event" they may have previously organised themselves and held at their home.

As for the companions - that's interesting. I imagine it could mean that OCA has a team of volunteers (people in the community, or perhaps even staff) who are available to accompany someone to a funeral, wedding, graduation etc, or out for a cuppa, to an art exhibition, for a drive in the country, shopping, local shows etc.

I see The Hellier has a lifestyle co-ordinator for personalised event planning, and access to companions for outings and events.

Wonder what that actually covers?

[Basil]

I see The Hellier has a lifestyle co-ordinator for personalised event planning, and access to companions for
outings and events.
Wonder what that actually covers?

A lot of people in retirement villages are very lonely when their spouse dies.  Evenings are the worst, apparently.
https://www.mindfood.com/article/luxury-epitomised-the-helier-by-oceania-reimagines-later-life-living/
Excerpts
This is a time to relish the fruits of our labour and to discover pleasures old and new.
we will have a very personalised individual service for our residents," explains Lacoua.
"The executive chef can come to their apartment to cook for any private dinners that they host," says Lacoua.
This just keeps looking better and better.  The general manager was top dog at one of Europe's finest hotels so I am sure he is very skilled in organizing the right companion for residents that want this....or is that the concierge's job?...I have no experience in such matters LOL

[BlackPeter]

Interesting debate in the other place about whether Oceania are "Greedy"
Got me thinking about the 30% DMF fee on the Helier which accrues over just 3 years, i.e. at the rate of 10% per annum.  To the best of my knowledge this is the fastest rate in the industry, and it does seem like a lot accruing very quickly.
Here's RYM for example with a maximum of 20% DMF that accrues over 4 years i.e. 5% a year only half the annual rate of OCA at the Helier.
https://www.rymanhealthcare.co.nz/what-we-offer/useful-articles/deferred-management-fee

One other thing well worth noting.  At RYM when you change unit types with your needs changing you only pay one DMF fee.  At Summerset you only pay one DMF fee + 2% admin for change of unit type.  On OCA's website I cannot find any undertaking that the DMF fee is payable only once which begs the question if you move from an independent living unit to a care suite do they clobber you 30% DMF on both ?  It would seem on the face of it they do. 

Interesting - this the same beagle who complained previously over all forums that OCA was too slow in cranking up their fees when the real estate prices went through the roof? And now he complains they are too greedy without having changed anything?

But then, this must be the same beagle who used to praise Ryman for introducing a fees for life model, while only months later flaming them for doing exactly that?

Must be hard to please beagles, maybe a lesson for anybody looking for a four legged friend.

OK, so OCA used to be in his bad basket because he didn't see how successful their model will be, and now that their success is hard to oversee even for the viewing impaired, now they are just greedy.

Oh dear ...

[Untamed]

With all due respect Basil, their care suite model is working. Good things take time. Care suites will become the preferred care option over the next few years - for those who can afford it. Mark my words.

I think this is the reason their care suite model isn't working

[Untamed]

You are making a pretty big assumption here. Do you know that this is happening for a fact? If so, can you please post a reliable source, as I am not at all sure that you are correct.

Curious how shareholders feel about their returns knowing some of them will come from people who have paid more than 1 lot of 30% DMF fees perhaps even 3 lots of 30% as they progressively move from an ILU unit to a serviced apartment then a care suite !     Doesn't feel right to me.    Morally repugnant is how I would describe it.

[Basil]

Assurances are provided on Summerset's website around only paying the DMF once and RYM make it crystal clear and I note their much lower DMF fee and it is accruing at half the annual rate of OCA's DMF fee.
The OCA website is very vague, and no such assurances are provided about only paying the DMF once.
I had to ring their national call center and the lady I spoke with assured me you only pay the DMF once which I have accepted at face value and accordingly, I have withdrawn my comments made above.
Apologies that I leapt to that conclusion, but I think OCA have a lot of work to do to make their website clearer.  My comments about the level of unsold stock are correct but have already been stated before so I have withdrawn them as well.
As you were Ladies and Gentlemen and have a lovely day. 

[Whacc]

The OCA website is very vague, and no such assurances are provided about only paying the DMF once.

OCA have always been open about care suites incurring another round of DMF.
Residents don't go to Serviced Apartments with OCA.  They don't have them in their portfolio. 
It's ILU then care suites, the marketing & value proposition of a care suite is all built around a 'single move' (from ILU to a care suite that provides all levels of care from rest home to hospital.  No need for a halfway-house serviced apartment.  No need to move when you need hospital level care.). 
For a guy who posts so relentlessly on this stock I would have expected you to have noticed that.

If a potential resident is in the market for a luxury retirement product doesn't want to pay 30% DMF at The Helier then they're welcome to look elsewhere for a similar product... e.g. that resident could:
- Wait for Summerset to finish at St Johns then turn their nose up that the apartments are not appointed to the same level and the service level isn't as high; or
- Wait for Ryman to finish at Kohimarama then spend the rest of their days lamenting being in a South-facing ditch with, "gasp", normal people.

As others have pointed out, I'm really not sure what your point is here.
You've bemoaned it as a bad business model and now, even with willing potential residents operating in a highly competitive market, you're framing them as greedy?

[Basil]

Interesting.  Here's the thing, anyone can ask any price they like for something, but does it find market acceptance is another question altogether.
The biggest fan of this stock on the other channel admitted today he thinks OCA have 335 unsold care suites.
In the year ended 31 March 2023 they only sold 74 new care suites. (Source, 2023 results presentation)
Based on their most recent sales evidence OCA therefore have 4.5 years worth of unsold stock of care suites.  You don't need to have a marketing degree to work out that's an epic fail.  Maybe if they are double dipping on the DMF as you suggest, people think that is greedy and that's why they're turning their noses up at them ?

[Waltzing]

Smooth operators OCA... smooth .... no idea what happening here just read the head line...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/everil-orr-village-residents-thought-the-new-facility-next-door-was-for-them-they-were-evicted-instead/NSTI7KVAYZHA7GECXWZAUWM5XI/