OCA - Oceania Healthcare

[Breezy]

Already at least one company is paying some or all of a capital gain (I don't recall which company, nor how much). Surely OCA needs to respond to this?

No they don't need to respond to this, none of the listed companies pay any capital gain, if fact only a few smaller fringe players do.

[Azz]

Another way to explain: I'm torn because what great possibilities, what a wonderful industry - but nah, "management fee, it is!"...

[Azz]

No they don't need to respond to this, none of the listed companies pay any capital gain, if fact only a few smaller fringe players do.

Thanks Breezy. I can't remember who it was.

[Untamed]

But what do you mean by "My family will not consider any of them?"

Are you talking about your elderly grandparents/parents, not wanting to ever move to an RV? If that's the case, that is absolutely fine! It is their decision, and if RV life is not for them, nobody is going to force them. It is simply one option, for some people.

I have no idea if OCA has "a massive following" or not. I certainly wouldn't say that is the case in this thread. This thread is full of anti-OCA posters in case you haven't noticed. But yes, there are still some of us who believe in the company. But if you don't like OCA that's your prerogative. You make your own investing decisions as to all of us. It isn't my job to convince you of OCA's worth. All I have to offer is a little insight into aged care (because that is actually what it is), and offer my experience as someone who has worked really hard to built trusted, respected, and caring relationships with the residents I care for. If it is of some value to some people, that's great. If not, they can scroll on by.

What I struggle to understand is why so many anti-OCA people, keep posting in this thread. Wouldn't your time be better spent contributing to discussions on companies you do invest in?

My family will not consider any of them. I'm here because of the stock and how, out of all the RV companies, it has this massive following. It intrigues me, maybe I'm missing something for the stock? I just can't see it, but you can I think - good on ya!

[KW]

Thanks for writing that up. But it is a concept I'm providing. People really think like that. They don't literally want to move into a village in their 50s. They're weighing an RV up (say for a family member who has asked about it) and cannot get past the management fee situation. They relate it to their own experience.

There are plenty of people in their 50s who want to move into a village.  If you went to Australia, that's exactly what you will find.  Its just NZ that limits it to over 70's.  I'd consider buying into an over 50's village in the future if I decide to move to Queensland, the only problem is that you cant currently get into one they are so popular. 

One of Australia's largest property companies (Stockland) has heaps of them.
https://www.stockland.com.au/halcyon-communities/halcyon-waters

This one comes with two community boats you can use :-)
https://www.stockland.com.au/halcyon-communities/vision-by-halcyon/lifestyle

I am actually surprised that no one has copied the Australian model in NZ - the difference is that you own your house (so you keep capital gains) but pay ground rent for the land in addition to your weekly service fees to the village operator.  And because its rent, you qualify for the Govt accommodation subsidy.  And because you dont own the land you dont pay stamp duty.

[Untamed]

Sigh ... you don't get it. When (the vast majority of) people make a decision to move to an RV, or any other kind of Aged Care/Retirement living situation, they they fully expect to be there for the rest of their life. That is precisely why, once they have made that decision, the money no longer matters. They have found their "home" and they have no intention of ever moving again.

Which is why the continuity of care aspect of RV living, is so attractive. The introduction of Care Suites makes it even more attractive.

Let me try and explain my thinking another way. If the industry could understand better how they are perceived, and, via competition, change the charging structure (ie, make it a little less "obvious" lol, I don't really mean obvious, but that's the situation right now: "you wanna leave?, you lose 30%") then sales would be much easier.

[Azz]

I have no idea if OCA has "a massive following" or not. I certainly wouldn't say that is the case in this thread. This thread is full of anti-OCA posters in case you haven't noticed. But yes, there are still some of us who believe in the company. But if you don't like OCA that's your prerogative. You make your own investing decisions as to all of us. It isn't my job to convince you of OCA's worth. All I have to offer is a little insight into aged care (because that is actually what it is), and offer my experience as someone who has worked really hard to built trusted, respected, and caring relationships with the residents I care for. If it is of some value to some people, that's great. If not, they can scroll on by.

What I struggle to understand is why so many anti-OCA people, keep posting in this thread. Wouldn't your time be better spent contributing to discussions on companies you do invest in?

Fair points.

But: Sometimes people change their mind on a stock. If people only post to threads where they are positive they won't ever be convinced otherwise for those they are negative on! And I think lately OCA longs have done a great job in responding.

[Azz]

But what do you mean by "My family will not consider any of them?"

Are you talking about your elderly grandparents/parents, not wanting to ever move to an RV? If that's the case, that is absolutely fine! It is their decision, and if RV life is not for them, nobody is going to force them. It is simply one option, for some people.

It's (an RV) just not going to happen, across quite a large family. "Care" is being looked at in a different manner from an RV too. And I've generally kept my mouth shut on the issue lol [within my family I mean].

[Azz]

There are plenty of people in their 50s who want to move into a village.  If you went to Australia, that's exactly what you will find.  Its just NZ that limits it to over 70's.  I'd consider buying into an over 50's village in the future if I decide to move to Queensland, the only problem is that you cant currently get into one they are so popular. 

One of Australia's largest property companies (Stockland) has heaps of them.
https://www.stockland.com.au/halcyon-communities/halcyon-waters

This one comes with two community boats you can use :-)
https://www.stockland.com.au/halcyon-communities/vision-by-halcyon/lifestyle

I am actually surprised that no one has copied the Australian model in NZ - the difference is that you own your house (so you keep capital gains) but pay ground rent for the land in addition to your weekly service fees to the village operator.  And because its rent, you qualify for the Govt accommodation subsidy.  And because you dont own the land you dont pay stamp duty.

Thanks for posting that!

[Buzz]

My family will not consider any of them. I'm here because of the stock and how, out of all the RV companies, it has this massive following. It intrigues me, maybe I'm missing something for the stock? I just can't see it, but you can I think - good on ya!

As an investment, as far as I can see, OCA or any other listed RV won't interest you. There's nothing in the RV sector in TOTO that you will find attractive as an investment, at this stage in your life.

Maybe it's just that it provides a platform for you, to express your views and frankly - ignorance of the sector, the companies, their business models or the long term investment opportunity, and yet some people politely reply, but are probably thinking, why are you/they wasting their time?

[Untamed]

Yes, I get that "care" is seen very differently from RV living. But in actual fact, it is a significant part of the whole model. Even villas and unserviced apartments, have an emergency "call bell" system, so occupants can call an RN in the event of an emergency. That is low level "care." Serviced apartments offer housekeeping services and laundry services - also "care." Most people only think of care as being personal cares provided at standard rest home, hospital or dementia level beds. But care encompasses so much more than that.

Yes, in my job I help people shower or use the toilet. I assist people with mobilising. I help them dress/undress. I serve their meals, clear their dishes, brush their teeth, do their laundry and ironing. But the most important aspect of the care I provide is, none of those things. It is the personal interaction I have with them every day. It is the sharing of aspects of my life, so they can get to know me as a person. It is listening to their amazing stories. It is the laughter we share, the respect I have for them as individuals and the time I put into building relationships so that they feel safe with me. THAT is care.

Most people ... and I do mean most ... do not get it.

It's (an RV) just not going to happen, across quite a large family. "Care" is being looked at in a different manner from an RV too. And I've generally kept my mouth shut on the issue lol.

[Buzz]

That's true; OCA seems to get it from everyone when it's more the industry. But this competition bit is specific to OCA, I'm wondering what's going to happen for them in regards to matching the competition.

"This competition bit" is not specific to OCA at all. None of the listed RV's do what you think is more equitable. None of them, they all pitch to a different market, generically those who can afford a 'comfortable' retirement living experience, and specifically through to end of life.

[Azz]

As an investment, as far as I can see, OCA or any other listed RV won't interest you. There's nothing in the RV sector in TOTO that you will find attractive as an investment, at this stage in your life.

Maybe it's just that it provides a platform for you, to express your views and frankly - ignorance of the sector, the companies, their business models or the long term investment opportunity, and yet some people politely reply, but are probably thinking, why are you/they wasting their time?

It's not about a views platform at all. And I'm agnostic to what I invest in. I wouldn't invest in a retirement home operator because I'm close to retirement lol, that doesn't make sense to me. I would certainly be interested in an RV company as an investment that when I searched online didn't result in lots of people and actual websites complaining about the management fee. It's just this one thing basically (that and capital gains). Don't shoot the messenger!

[Azz]

"This competition bit" is not specific to OCA at all. None of the listed RV's do what you think is more equitable. None of them, they all pitch to a different market, generically those who can afford a 'comfortable' retirement living experience, and specifically through to end of life.

Point taken; I thought one did. If it's just a small player then agree that's not really much competition.

[Buzz]

... It is the personal interaction I have with them every day. It is the sharing of aspects of my life, so they can get to know me as a person. It is listening to their amazing stories. It is the laughter we share, the respect I have for them as individuals and the time I put into building relationships so that they feel safe with me. THAT is care.

Most people ... and I do mean most ... do not get it.

This, and precisely this, is my enduring memory of the years of visiting my parents at the 'rest home', at least weekly, often twice weekly. So many fond memories, laughs and happy times we all had, they were so happy, safe, contended and surrounded by like minded folks. They're all dead now though, parents and the folks that were there at the time. I think that the inheritance money we beneficiaries forfeited, which was substantial, is nothing in the scheme of things compared to the everlasting feeling of having done the right and best things for our loved ones, and ourselves, when they no longer had the wherewithal to make the decisions for themselves.