OCA - Oceania Healthcare

[Azz]

Point taken; I thought one did. If it's just a small player then agree that's not really much competition.

Not sure if this would be considered a small player or not, but certainly competition of some sort:

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Vivid Living communities are purpose-built by Fletcher Living (a wholly owned subsidiary of Fletcher Building Limited)

* 50% share in capital gains
* Low Deferred Management Fee of 15%

https://vividliving.co.nz/our-benefits
-----------------------

[ValueNZ]

It's not about a views platform at all. And I'm agnostic to what I invest in. I wouldn't invest in a retirement home operator because I'm close to retirement lol, that doesn't make sense to me. I would certainly be interested in an RV company as an investment that when I searched online didn't result in lots of people and actual websites complaining about the management fee. It's just this one thing basically (that and capital gains). Don't shoot the messenger!

What makes the retirement villager sector's ability to have such rapid growth of their assets is the occupational right agreement model...

Take that away and I'm no longer interested in holding Oceania shares.

[ValueNZ]

Not sure if this would be considered a small player or not, but certainly competition of some sort:

-----------------------
Vivid Living communities are purpose-built by Fletcher Living (a wholly owned subsidiary of Fletcher Building Limited)

* 50% share in capital gains
* Low Deferred Management Fee of 15%

https://vividliving.co.nz/our-benefits
-----------------------

They are seriously tiny.

[Azz]

They are seriously tiny.

Fletcher Building? Um...

[Breezy]

Not sure if this would be considered a small player or not, but certainly competition of some sort:

-----------------------
Vivid Living communities are purpose-built by Fletcher Living (a wholly owned subsidiary of Fletcher Building Limited)

* 50% share in capital gains
* Low Deferred Management Fee of 15%

https://vividliving.co.nz/our-benefits
-----------------------

They don't provide a continuum of care so different market.

[ValueNZ]

Fletcher Building? Um...

No, just the retirement village branch of FBU. I didn't realise it even existed until now.

[Buzz]

What makes the retirement villager sector's ability to have such rapid growth of their assets is the occupational right agreement model...

Take that away and I'm no longer interested in holding Oceania shares.

To truely understand the business model, is to recognise the importance of leveraging the 'float' (a concept harangued elsewhere, but absolutely true). Debt free money that never has to be repaid, incorrectly (imo) held as a liability when in fact it is free money that is leveraged for growth.

These are property development companies (the listed RV's) that have a unique business model, that sustains development and growth in income accordingly. I'd expect a company like this to fly close to the wind on cashflows and profits, let alone sharing profits with shareholders.

It takes time to get our heads around this because we have to factor in, where in the lifecycle of our investment, are these RV's? Until recently, all of them were full-on development, but now they're tempering expectations because apparently immediate ROI is important! It isn't.

OCA imo is still early stage, albeit making great progress, it was until recently just focused on growth, and doing a good job of it, again imo. No one would buy OCA if they didn't buy into their longer term development strategy, but few lately seem to acknowledge that. All the other stuff around that is 'feel good', but it's not what makes the company grow, or generates the money.

It's like a high growth software development company, even loss making (as so many are), all they have to do is fire all the software developers (builders in this case), stop development, and the cash flows flood in from the customer base they already have. But that would be madness, wouldn't it. Kill growth to satisfy a bunch of short term shareholders eager for income.

Again imo, it takes time to get ones head around investing in the RV sector, and/or the individual RV's which are at different points in their maturity. But that said, I'm more than happy with OCA (I own a bit of all of them, but overweight OCA), the sector already has, and will continue do very well in the long term, for investors. The tailwinds cannot be ignorned

It might not be instant capital gains money like some NAZ high fliers, but I reserve another portion of my portfolio for speculation. This, OCA and the other RV's are not speculation, it is bona fide long hold.

All imo.

[Buzz]

No, just the retirement village branch of FBU. I didn't realise it even existed until now.

They're NOT "retirement villages", they are standalone rentals for retirees with no continuum of care. Big difference, not even comparable to any of the listed RV's.

[Untamed]

This doesn't even come close to competing with traditional RVs.

Vivid Living at Red Beach offers a range of 1, 2, & 3-bedroom independent villas, with a central residents' lounge and onsite Community Manager. The residents' lounge includes a kitchen, tea & coffee facilities, a large screen TV, gas fireplace, a reading space, indoor and outdoor seating, and a BBQ patio area looking out onto landscaped shared central green spaces. The residents' lounge provides a friendly connection space for residents and can also be booked for private functions.

It is simply a collection of independent living villas, with a pretty basic "residents lounge" and garden space. Zero care element.

Not sure if this would be considered a small player or not, but certainly competition of some sort:

-----------------------
Vivid Living communities are purpose-built by Fletcher Living (a wholly owned subsidiary of Fletcher Building Limited)

* 50% share in capital gains
* Low Deferred Management Fee of 15%

https://vividliving.co.nz/our-benefits
-----------------------

[Untamed]

Actually, they are not rentals. They are for purchase. But I see nothing even remotely attractive about this type of "village." It has literally none of the benefits traditional RVs provide.

They're NOT "retirement villages", they are standalone rentals for retirees with no continuum of care. Big difference, not even comparable to any of the listed RV's.

[ValueNZ]

To truely understand the business model, is to recognise the importance of leveraging the 'float' (a concept harangued elsewhere, but absolutely true). Debt free money that never has to be repaid, incorrectly (imo) held as a liability when in fact it is free money that is leveraged for growth.

These are property development companies (the listed RV's) that have a unique business model, that sustains development and growth in income accordingly. I'd expect a company like this to fly close to the wind on cashflows and profits, let alone sharing profits with shareholders.

It takes time to get our heads around this because we have to factor in, where in the lifecycle of our investment, are these RV's? Until recently, all of them were full-on development, but now they're tempering expectations because apparently immediate ROI is important! It isn't.

OCA imo is still early stage, albeit making great progress, it was until recently just focused on growth, and doing a good job of it, again imo. No one would buy OCA if they didn't buy into their longer term development strategy, but few lately seem to acknowledge that. All the other stuff around that is 'feel good', but it's not what makes the company grow, or generates the money.

It's like a high growth software development company, even loss making (as so many are), all they have to do is fire all the software developers (builders in this case), stop development, and the cash flows flood in from the customer base they already have. But that would be madness, wouldn't it. Kill growth to satisfy a bunch of short term shareholders eager for income.

Again imo, it takes time to get ones head around investing in the RV sector, and/or the individual RV's which are at different points in their maturity. But that said, I'm more than happy with OCA (I own a bit of all of them, but overweight OCA), the sector already has, and will continue do very well in the long term, for investors. The tailwinds cannot be ignorned

It might not be instant capital gains money like some NAZ high fliers, but I reserve another portion of my portfolio for speculation. This, OCA and the other RV's are not speculation, it is bona fide long hold.

All imo.

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I wonder how many shareholders actually understand the float... Likely very few. Of course, that's to our benefit with the share price being so low.

[Azz]

that's to our benefit with the share price being so low.

Are there any other "features" such as the "float" that will help get the share price even lower?

[Azz]

unsubstantiated rubbish

This is an impossible situation for me.

If I substantiate my views on OCA - you call me a troll.

If I don't substantiate my views on OCA  - you say I'm talking unsubstantiated rubbish.

I'm going to do this, I'm making this statement, and I'll leave this thread to its echo chamber:

I think OCA is in all sorts of bother, but why should I help thin-skinned longs who seem to have a personal attachment to a stock. The stock market is a tough game, it's not advisable to shut down opinion and get upset with people who suggest something you don't agree with.

And: Never fall in love with a stock.

[Buzz]

I think OCA is in all sorts of bother

Why exactly do you think this, what is your thesis? Spell it out for us 'longs' who are apparently blind to something important that makes our investment so vulnerable. Perhaps add into this as well, why you said OCA is prone imminent financial meltdown, or words to that effect.

Thank you.

[Waltzing]

YUP still a going concern as far as the last financial report and will bump along for a while yet... Going to be a difficult few years for a lot of sectors not just this one...

Land ... no much more being made and some spots in NZ are likely never going to reduce much in value.

Its a hard lesson to learn but NZ land is very valuable.

AS society gets more risky a safe place to be housed in later years will stay in demand.

HealthCarePro (AKA UTD) puts a good case for care units as well..  You have to be in the industry perhaps to understand its complicated Accounting model.. IE Treatment of the DMF.