Santana Minerals Limited

[Sideshow Bob]

The gold is there. The old timers proved that!! 

I think the risk is all around the resource consent - especially if they find a rare moth or gecko or moa. Plenty enough gold and no doubt will be upgraded over time. Look at McRaes....still going.

[Basil]

Yeap, from memory in the mid 80's when the Waihi mine started up again it was supposed to have a approx 10 year mine life and they're still talking about another 10 years, 40 years later lol.

[Sideshow Bob]

Must be one of the "Sustainable Tarras" members based in one of Tarras' outer suburbs.....

https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/yes-all-glistens-not-always-gold

[Left Field]

Must be one of the "Sustainable Tarras" members based in one of Tarras' outer suburbs.....

https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/yes-all-glistens-not-always-gold

Locals (and anyone living downstream) will be concerned to read this in the article.....(if it's true)

"Placing a tailings dam above the Clutha River poses significant risks. That dam will need to hold tens of millions of tonnes of toxic rock and water slurry containing cyanide, arsenic and heavy metals.

Santana reportedly trusts the schist rock is so tight the dam can be left unlined, but seepage is a forever risk. A dam rupture would potentially be catastrophic for the Clutha's wildlife, aquifers, and drinking water of the towns downstream.

Such dam failures keep occurring across the world. So do cyanide incidents.

Santana is unwilling to commit to a bond to cover long-term monitoring or the risk that the tailings dam fails. The company is also yet to commit to the "International Cyanide Code" that regulates cyanide use."

[Basil]

Updated feasibility study with full plans for mine development is expected later this month.  Greenies positioning themselves against the mine with emotional statements about the environment is to be expected.

[BlackPeter]

Updated feasibility study with full plans for mine development is expected later this month.  Greenies positioning themselves against the mine with emotional statements about the environment is to be expected.

Absolutely - and so is the posturing of the people who are happy to risk the environment and the livelyhoods of others living downstream of their golden goose. Who cares about the lives of ecosystems and people?

Plenty of recent examples highlighting that the the risks of gold mining are not theoretical, but they are killing killing people and ecosystems as we speak. Just lets create another desaster for the sake of some shareholders:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gold_mining_disasters

And lets face it - our OSH regulations have been weak enough in the past allowing e.g. a greedy company to kill plenty of miners in the Pike River Mine. Sure, this was coal not gold and not too bad for the environment, but people died becaused of weak regulations and greedy owners, concerned only about profit and not safety. Our current government further reduced the regulations and cares still less about the environment and peoples lives.

What possibly could go wrong?

[Basil]

Plenty of recent examples highlighting that the the risks of gold mining are not theoretical, but they are killing killing people and ecosystems as we speak. Just lets create another desaster for the sake of some shareholders:

I acknowledge gold mining is a controversial issue.  A good friend has had a lot to do with the water treatment systems at Waihi which have been operating without incident for about 40 years and providing hundreds of high paying jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars into contractors pockets.

Can you please provide some examples of this death you allege that has happened in N.Z. from gold mines here ?...or are you talking about third world countries that have no consenting processes for mines ?

Food for thought.  Cars really do kill hundreds of people in N.Z. every single year and pollute the environment horribly but we all still drive them, including you.    Why is that ?  The answer is simple, the benefits outweigh the costs, risks and the damage to the environment.  The Australian economy has been far more robust than ours, why, because they are not scared to dig up their back yard when it provides high paying jobs and huge benefits to the economy.

[Sideshow Bob]

During Covid, there was a big thing in Central Otago/Queenstown about reducing the relinace on tourism and boosting other industries. But just yesterday government announced $13.5m to boost tourism numbers by 72,000.

As a local in the general area, would much rather have a gold mine (properly managed run with all adequate consents and controls), than another airport and yet more tourists!! 

[BlackPeter]

I acknowledge gold mining is a controversial issue.  A good friend has had a lot to do with the water treatment systems at Waihi which have been operating without incident for about 40 years and providing hundreds of high paying jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars into contractors pockets.

Food for thought.  Cars kill hundreds of people in N.Z. every year and pollute the environment but we all still drive them, including you.    Why is that ?  The answer is simple, the benefits outweigh the costs and risks and the damage to the environment.  The Australian economy has been far more robust than ours, why, because they are not scared to dig up their back yard when it provides high paying jobs and huge benefits to the economy.

Look - one example for a gold mine without accidents is as sensible as saying that driving a car without seatbelt is safe because we know one person who did that for 40 years without an accident. You need to look at the stats, but hey, you know that as well. Amazing how the endowment effect is impacting on people.

And yes, we all accept risks - all of the time. This is part of life, and ok if we try to minimise the risks and accept the residual risks for us and our families / communities in exchange with benefits for the same group. It becomes fishy if one group of people appears to be quite happy to accept risks for a different group of people, to make the first group of people rich or happy with the second group carrying the risks. This smells like oppression and exploitation to me.

We need to find a way to have the people who are exposed to the risks are well informed about them, protected as well as possible and fairly compensated for taking the residual risks ... instead of just lowering the regulations and sweeping the risks (for others / environment) under the carpet.

[Basil]

During Covid, there was a big thing in Central Otago/Queenstown about reducing the relinace on tourism and boosting other industries. But just yesterday government announced $13.5m to boost tourism numbers by 72,000.

As a local in the general area, would much rather have a gold mine (properly managed run with all adequate consents and controls), than another airport and yet more tourists!! 

I hear you.  Queenstown and the wider district is unbearably overrun with tourists already and ruining it for the locals from what I hear.  Queenstown is nothing like the beautiful, quaint little town our family used to holiday at when I was a kid.  A goldmine that's out of sight and out of mind that's going to bring billions of dollars into the local economy, provided the risks are managed carefully is probably something other locals would prefer too ?

Lets see what the mine development plans look like BP.  In the meantime, if you do have any examples of gold mine incidents in N.Z. causing death or injury, please feel free to share.

[BlackPeter]

I hear you.  Queenstown and the wider district is unbearably overrun with tourists already and ruining it for the locals from what I hear.  Queenstown is nothing like the beautiful, quaint little town our family used to holiday at when I was a kid.  A goldmine that's out of sight and out of mind that's going to bring billions of dollars into the local economy, provided the risks are managed carefully is probably something other locals would prefer too ?

Lets see what the mine development plans look like BP.

Sure - choosing between uncontrolled mass tourism and uncontrolled mining for a sensitive area sounds like the choice between pest and cholera.

But maybe the key is the word uncontrolled.

What about sustainable tourism, sustainable agriculture and sustainable mining?

I am neither against tourism, nor against agriculture and neither against (responsible) mining. I am just saying that the current government clearly does not seem care enough about peoples or environment safety, and this is something we and our kids / grandchildren will pay for. And I would see polluted goundwater and / or larger areas of Otago not anymore safe for agriculture due to cyanide pollution of the land as too high.

One big mine disaster is all it needs.

[Basil]

In the meantime, if you do have any examples of gold mine incidents in N.Z. causing death or injury, please feel free to share.

Many of our lakes and rivers are heavily polluted with dairy and fertilizer run-off but that's okay I suppose because its "precious Dairy"  Like I said earlier BP, hundreds of people ARE dying every year from vehicles but we all drive them.   Queenstown is completely overrun with tourists but we tolerate it because we have too. I'm still waiting for one example of cyanide contamination, one death or serious injury from all the existing gold mining operations in N.Z. over the decades.  On the evidence to date, Gold mining is far better for the environment than tourism or dairy....At least the toxic mess is contained rather than being let rip into the environment from farming operations !  Lets drop the pretense that we are a 100% clean and green country with pristine lakes and rivers shall we ?

Macraes a good example of another mine generating enormous economic benefits to the region.  More than 600 high paying jobs + hundreds of millions paid to contractors over the years and then the economic multiplier effect from all those people and contractors spending their money over the last 34 years.  https://oceanagold.com/operation/macraes/  No nitrogen run off from their operations ruining our lakes and rivers so the water is undrinkable !  Please lets stop pretending dairy isn't ruining the environment shall we ?

[BlackPeter]

Many of our lakes and rivers are heavily polluted with dairy and fertilizer run-off but that's okay I suppose because its "precious Dairy"  Like I said earlier BP, hundreds of people ARE dying every year from vehicles but we all drive them.   Queenstown is completely overrun with tourists but we tolerate it because we have too. I'm still waiting for one example of cyanide contamination, one death or serious injury from all the existing gold mining operations in N.Z. over the decades.  On the evidence to date, Gold mining is far better for the environment than tourism or dairy....At least the toxic mess is contained rather than being let rip into the environment from farming operations !  Lets drop the pretense that we are a 100% clean and green country with pristine lakes and rivers shall we ?

You are correct. NZ went over the last 50 years or so through an amazing destruction of our environment. There was a time when it was safe to swim in (and even to drink from) our rivers. Now we are lucky if they are wadeable. There was a time when our beaches were clean and our air breathable. Try latter these days in an inversion event when farmers make their big burn offs.

So yes, agriculture and mass tourism went out of their way to destroy our environment, and clearly - our current government doesn't seem to care at all.

Not sure though I understand why this should be a free for all to further destruct our environment? Maybe we should stop the pollution instead of further increasing it?

Ah yes, and your request to get examples of gold mining destroying the environment in NZ is sort of pathetic. Have a look through the link I posted earlier today. Plenty of recent gold mining desasters all over the globe with the main culprits being Australian, Canadian and US companies running the mines. They clearly don't care about the environment and the safety of their people overseas, and I would not know, why this should be different, no matter whether they mine  in the US. Canada, Australia, South America, Africa or in NZ. The only thing which counts for them is fast profits, and the only thing which might protect us are our local regulations. Unfortunately - our current government is weakening them by the year and clearly does not care about peoples safety or the environment.

Just think about our recent mining desasters ... government does not seem to mind dead people in coal mining (like e.g. PRC, they just turned work safe into a toothless tigre), and neither do they worry about gold mining deaths and a further polluted environment.

[Basil]

Nobody, including me wants a free for all.  Lets see what Santana have to say about the proposed mine development and environmental protection systems they are planning in due course.  Full planning details will be released in their updated feasibility study due out soon.  Any further debate before then will just get us into circular arguments that will tire us both out as well as everyone else 😉

[Basil]

https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/453788/attachment/446088/453788-446088.pdf