Bitcoin

[Azz]

Thread starter! What a time to be alive: during the early days of Bitcoin and A.I., the two greatest investment opportunities in history. Of course, to partake you have to put your money down eh...

Let's sit back and enjoy the Bitcoin ride to US$100k !

[Breezy]

Thread starter! What a time to be alive: during the early days of Bitcoin and A.I., the two greatest investment opportunities in history. Of course, to partake you have to put your money down eh...

Let's sit back and enjoy the Bitcoin ride to US$100k !

No thanks I like to buy things that actually exist in the physical world, Bitcoin is a classic example of human stupidity but for those that want to buy valueless bits of computer data with an imaginary value then be my guest.

[THESTG]

Bitcoin cash is interesting, it's a fork off the Bitcoin blockchain and its halving will be about 3rd April 2024. This may give some insight into what Bitcoin is going to do when it halves. 

[BlackPeter]

Bitcoin cash is interesting, it's a fork off the Bitcoin blockchain and its halving will be about 3rd April 2024. This may give some insight into what Bitcoin is going to do when it halves. 

Hard to believe people discussing digital tokens without any underlying value in an investor forum.

Whatever your "coin" of choice - any Computer science student can create an infinit amount of other "coins", they don't make any money, they don't have any underlying value and the only thing holding their price up is human stupidity (aka hype). Works as long as you find a larger fool.

Any chance we keep this nonsense out of "commodities and forex" - digital tokens are neither a commodity (which is stuff people need to produce something useful) nor a forex.

If you really need another rabbit hole to discuss this non sense, maybe create a thread "gambling". This is where this "discussion" belongs.

[Breezy]

Hard to believe people discussing digital tokens without any underlying value in an investor forum.

Whatever your "coin" of choice - any Computer science student can create an infinit amount of other "coins", they don't make any money, they don't have any underlying value and the only thing holding their price up is human stupidity (aka hype). Works as long as you find a larger fool.

Any chance we keep this nonsense out of "commodities and forex" - digital tokens are neither a commodity (which is stuff people need to produce something useful) nor a forex.

If you really need another rabbit hole to discuss this non sense, maybe create a thread "gambling". This is where this "discussion" belongs.

Well could have been worse if it has been put under the investing thread. As as aside the stock market is the world's biggest casino so it all comes under 'gambling in essence.

[Administrator]

I don't think it is worth creating a separate crypto category so I am happy with it coming under commodities and forex.

[Azz]

Hard to believe people discussing digital tokens without any underlying value in an investor forum.

Whatever your "coin" of choice - any Computer science student can create an infinit amount of other "coins", they don't make any money, they don't have any underlying value and the only thing holding their price up is human stupidity (aka hype). Works as long as you find a larger fool.

Any chance we keep this nonsense out of "commodities and forex" - digital tokens are neither a commodity (which is stuff people need to produce something useful) nor a forex.

If you really need another rabbit hole to discuss this non sense, maybe create a thread "gambling". This is where this "discussion" belongs.

This is an investment:

* Action...: Entity_A pays "amount" to Entity_B to receive in return ownership of "thing"; where "thing" can be anything - Bitcoin, US equities, gold in a vault, premium whisky, a classic Ferrari, even shares in a portfolio-destroying NZ RV (losing investments are still investments; they're just bad ones).

* Goal...: Over time, "thing" hopefully increases in value by a gain on the capital itself and possibly with a return on that capital as well.

That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. The key is for the investment to get bigger, as opposed to smaller. Bitcoin: bigger, very very very bigger. In fact bigger than any other investment of the last 15 years. Bitcoin: the very best investment. Numero uno. No wiggle room here for argument. Bitcoin has huge liquidity, numerous exchanges, a recognized spot price (currently US$70,000), many financial instruments (including BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF, which just crossed US$17.5 billion in BTC under management), and a truly magnificent market cap (currently US$1.3 trillion, and about to overtake silver). You can say Bitcoin is worth nothing as much as you like, but it's clearly not true; it's also completely irrelevant - it's you vs US$1.3 trillion of market cap... good luck with that.

I actually find incredibly rude and distasteful your comments in this thread, the pinnacle of which is you trying to have the thread deleted or placed into a category of your choosing. I don't mind negative views on any asset I'm in, but you're trying to bully your way through this community as if you own the place.

[Azz]

No thanks I like to buy things that actually exist in the physical world, Bitcoin is a classic example of human stupidity but for those that want to buy valueless bits of computer data with an imaginary value then be my guest.

I don't think people who understand Bitcoin and have invested in it and made fortunes are stupid at all. I have a hunch they might be the opposite of stupid.

But you also wrote this:

As as aside the stock market is the world's biggest casino so it all comes under 'gambling in essence.

...which is all sorts of awesome, and I agree!

[Breezy]

This is an investment:

* Action...: Entity_A pays "amount" to Entity_B to receive in return ownership of "thing"; where "thing" can be anything - Bitcoin, US equities, gold in a vault, premium whisky, a classic Ferrari, even shares in a portfolio-destroying NZ RV (losing investments are still investments; they're just bad ones).

* Goal...: Over time, "thing" hopefully increases in value by a gain on the capital itself and possibly with a return on that capital as well.

That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. The key is for the investment to get bigger, as opposed to smaller. Bitcoin: bigger, very very very bigger. In fact bigger than any other investment of the last 15 years. Bitcoin: the very best investment. Numero uno. No wiggle room here for argument. Bitcoin has huge liquidity, numerous exchanges, a recognized spot price (currently US$70,000), many financial instruments (including BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF, which just crossed US$17.5 billion in BTC under management), and a truly magnificent market cap (currently US$1.3 trillion, and about to overtake silver). You can say Bitcoin is worth nothing as much as you like, but it's clearly not true; it's also completely irrelevant - it's you vs US$1.3 trillion of market cap... good luck with that.

I actually find incredibly rude and distasteful your comments in this thread, the pinnacle of which is you trying to have the thread deleted or placed into a category of your choosing. I don't mind negative views on any asset I'm in, but you're trying to bully your way through this community as if you own the place.

Bitcoin and other crypto currencies have a price which can continue to increase but it has zero intrinsic value as its not a physical asset or linked to an entity that owns physical assetts. If I buy Gold I can see/touch and feel my asset, I can keep that Gold for 20yrs and it will still have value and whats more it has stable value which can be relied on and has stood the test of time but each to their own. PS- My wife has some Bitcoin and some Gold, im just a Silver peasant.

[Azz]

Bitcoin and other crypto currencies have a price which can continue to increase but it has zero intrinsic value as its not a physical asset or linked to an entity that owns physical assetts. If I buy Gold I can see/touch and feel my asset, I can keep that Gold for 20yrs and it will still have value and whats more it has stable value which can be relied on and has stood the test of time but each to their own. PS- My wife has some Bitcoin and some Gold, im just a Silver peasant.

It sounds like your wife is the smart one. :-)

[ValueNZ]

This is an investment:

* Action...: Entity_A pays "amount" to Entity_B to receive in return ownership of "thing"; where "thing" can be anything - Bitcoin, US equities, gold in a vault, premium whisky, a classic Ferrari, even shares in a portfolio-destroying NZ RV (losing investments are still investments; they're just bad ones).

* Goal...: Over time, "thing" hopefully increases in value by a gain on the capital itself and possibly with a return on that capital as well.

That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less. The key is for the investment to get bigger, as opposed to smaller. Bitcoin: bigger, very very very bigger. In fact bigger than any other investment of the last 15 years. Bitcoin: the very best investment. Numero uno. No wiggle room here for argument. Bitcoin has huge liquidity, numerous exchanges, a recognized spot price (currently US$70,000), many financial instruments (including BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF, which just crossed US$17.5 billion in BTC under management), and a truly magnificent market cap (currently US$1.3 trillion, and about to overtake silver). You can say Bitcoin is worth nothing as much as you like, but it's clearly not true; it's also completely irrelevant - it's you vs US$1.3 trillion of market cap... good luck with that.

I actually find incredibly rude and distasteful your comments in this thread, the pinnacle of which is you trying to have the thread deleted or placed into a category of your choosing. I don't mind negative views on any asset I'm in, but you're trying to bully your way through this community as if you own the place.

The best definition of investment is this, "An investment operation is one which, upon thorough analysis, promises safety of principal and an adequate return. Operations not meeting these requirements are speculative."

Bitcoin promises neither safety of principle nor an adequate return and is therefore speculative.

[Azz]

The best definition of investment is this, "An investment operation is one which, upon thorough analysis, promises safety of principal and an adequate return. Operations not meeting these requirements are speculative."

Bitcoin promises neither safety of principle nor an adequate return and is therefore speculative.

You can say whatever you want; but the reality is you're up against Bitcoin's US$1.3 trillion of market cap.

[ValueNZ]

You can say whatever you want; but the reality is you're up against Bitcoin's US$1.3 trillion of market cap.

Huh? I'm not up against anything crypto... No short position here.

[Azz]

You can say whatever you want; but the reality is you're up against Bitcoin's US$1.3 trillion of market cap.

Which is five times bigger than NZ's GDP of US$243 billion.

[Azz]

Huh? I'm not up against anything crypto... No short position here.

Your opinion of what an investment is, and whether Bitcoin is one, is statistically meaningless compared to Bitcoin's market cap.