Pharmazen

[winner (n)]

And why do they produce gummies mini?

[winner (n)]

Was any mention made of their sales and marketing skills .....all ok making heaps of stuff but you have to sell it

[Minimoke]

And why do they produce gummies mini?

Its a way of avoiding medicinal registrations. Put it in a capsule you have all sorts of dramas. Make a gummy and no one is worried

[Minimoke]

Was any mention made of their sales and marketing skills .....all ok making heaps of stuff but you have to sell it

No shortage of demand. Constrained by ability to produce.

[Basil]

Was any mention made of their sales and marketing skills .....all ok making heaps of stuff but you have to sell it

That's my concern too.  Let's get real, Aiora has been a real flop. For whatever reason the biggest distribution chain in Australasia (Chemist Warehouse), won't stock it and neither is anyone else.

Pet Treats.  Good, people love their pets but...A quick search of the Animates website showed 207 different sorts of dog treats, (didn't even search under cats).  Many of these brands would have invested tens of millions in building their brand over the years. https://www.animates.co.nz/dog/treats
Brand building is a long, complicated and expensive process that requires serious money and real skills.  Well respected brands like for example Blackmores have many decades of expertise and vast marketing expenditure every year behind their brand building.  Is PAZ capable of that sort of investment ?

Chief among other concerns is the valuation.  Even at 35 cents it's on a 2022 PE of 97 by my calculations.  Back a few years ago when I was buying, (and their growth prospects were very well known then), it was trading on a forward PE in the low 20's.  Profits would have to quadruple for the metrics on this to get back into the mid 20's.  Maybe that happens in 2025 or 2026, who knows...  Even if they can do that then that still only makes the stock fair value at the current price in 2025 or 2026 in my book and obviously there's no dividends between now and then.

[Breezy]

That's my concern too.  Let's get real, Aiora has been a real flop. For whatever reason the biggest distribution chain in Australasia (Chemist Warehouse), won't stock it and neither is anyone else.

Pet Treats.  Good, people love their pets but...A quick search of the Animates website showed 207 different sorts of dog treats, (didn't even search under cats).  Many of these brands would have invested tens of millions in building their brand over the years. https://www.animates.co.nz/dog/treats
Brand building is a long, complicated and expensive process that requires serious money and real skills.  Well respected brands like for example Blackmores have many decades of expertise and vast marketing expenditure every year behind their brand building.  Is PAZ capable of that sort of investment ?

Chief among other concerns is the valuation.  Even at 35 cents it's on a 2022 PE of 97 by my calculations.  Back a few years ago when I was buying, (and their growth prospects were very well known then), it was trading on a forward PE in the low 20's.  Profits would have to quadruple for the metrics on this to get back into the mid 20's.  Maybe that happens in 2025 or 2026, who knows...  Even if they can do that then that still only makes the stock fair value at the current price in 2025 or 2026 in my book and obviously there's no dividends between now and then.

You needn't concern yourself about it as you don't hold and stock prices don't follow symmetrical rules as you well know, get this listed on the ASX and you would see the price take off once they really get rolling, plenty of stocks on far higher PE's. Besides a few of us have too many shares to sell currently even if we wanted to and I don't want to before I see the company reach its true potential. Of course its disappointing and frustrating to see the slow progress but life can be like that more times than often.

[Minimoke]

That's my concern too.  Let's get real, Aiora has been a real flop. For whatever reason the biggest distribution chain in Australasia (Chemist Warehouse), won't stock it and neither is anyone else.

Pet Treats.  Good, people love their pets but...A quick search of the Animates website showed 207 different sorts of dog treats, (didn't even search under cats).  Many of these brands would have invested tens of millions in building their brand over the years. https://www.animates.co.nz/dog/treats
Brand building is a long, complicated and expensive process that requires serious money and real skills.  Well respected brands like for example Blackmores have many decades of expertise and vast marketing expenditure every year behind their brand building.  Is PAZ capable of that sort of investment ?

Chief among other concerns is the valuation.  Even at 35 cents it's on a 2022 PE of 97 by my calculations.  Back a few years ago when I was buying, (and their growth prospects were very well known then), it was trading on a forward PE in the low 20's.  Profits would have to quadruple for the metrics on this to get back into the mid 20's.  Maybe that happens in 2025 or 2026, who knows...  Even if they can do that then that still only makes the stock fair value at the current price in 2025 or 2026 in my book and obviously there's no dividends between now and then.

Don't be distracted by Aiora.

After yesterday's AGM and site visit it is patently obvious that Pharmazen are an ingredients manufacturer. That is where they are putting pretty much most of their energy - converting raw materials into ingredients that others can use. And they can do that partly on quality of raw materials as well as price - they are working very hard to make sure their cost structure is very well managed. Hence the investment in energy hubs and raw material contracts.

What they have also done though is see the value of OEM products. I now see Aiora as basically R&D. They are learning how to convert their ingredient into capsules, gummys and sausages. This is really good R&D because there is so much more money to be made from these end user products. They are looking at markets - for example stressing dog treats are made from NZ Grass Fed Beef heart - its a point of difference from grain fed beef. Apparently sausage is a bit on an in-thing. We only talked about dogs - cats werent in the conversation.

So while they are looking at creating plant and facilities that can create a lot more ingredients they are also looking at adding value. And a lot of value! A 1 x 7 level of increased value on an already profitable ingredient.

I didnt ask specifically but in the conversation I got the sense that NZ market is essentially negligible from a revenue perspective. USA is main market. And they now have an open door into pets in China.

And a comment on their new branding - that is apparently what international markets find appealing - not necessarily NZ.

[Breezy]

I have only ever seen the Aiora range as an add on product, its a bit like selling pies at a petrol station.

[winner (n)]

I hope they don't end up like Blis ...... great products but useless marketing ability

Could we see an Ariora Beef Liver Icecream on day as part of the product line extension

[Basil]

Tell you guys what.  I will do some market research for you in due course with a very smart dog.
When PAZ release their beef heart dog treats I will put two treats down on the ground at equidistant distance from Tony the Pony and see which one he goes for.
Lets go with the well known brand Schmackos as the other contender.
https://www.animates.co.nz/schmackos-marrobones-dog-treats-735g.html
Tony is a very clever dog, he'll tell us whether PAZ's dog treats are better or not.

[Minimoke]

Tell you guys what.  I will do some market research for you in due course with a very smart dog.
When PAZ release their beef heart dog treats I will put two treats down on the ground at equidistant distance from Tony the Pony and see which one he goes for.
Lets go with the well known brand Schmackos as the other contender.
https://www.animates.co.nz/schmackos-marrobones-dog-treats-735g.html
Tony is a very clever dog, he'll tell us whether PAZ's dog treats are better or not.

If he's a smart dog he'll eat one. And then the other. And enjoy both

[Basil]

If he's a smart dog he'll eat one. And then the other. And enjoy both

LOL he'll definitely do that...but which one will he get his huge snout into first?

[Breezy]

I'm expecting the sp to drift down to about 25c before it turns upward in due course, odd custodial holdings offloading a few as they do every year around this time and rats and mice sellers who bought under 10c and can't be bothered waiting any longer. Anyway not really a market in the true sense as the vast majority of the shares (I'd guess 90%, are held by entities that aren't selling any).

[Basil]

....
Like you, very disappointed with Q1 results. I am not satisfied with their "staff shortage" reasons. Nor was I satisfied with the chairs (when I asked him) response to the lack of information being given to shareholders and the market.....

As an accountant, I find deliberate concealment of relevant financial information abhorrent and completely unacceptable.
There is no reason that proper half yearly financial statements cannot be provided to all shareholders.  For goodness' sake, we have computers and accounting systems that do a lot of the donkey work these days, this is not rocket science.  Insiders can trade all year on inside information while everyone else is in the dark until whenever they choose to eventually release their annual financial statements.

How this can possibly be seen as a level playing field is beyond my comprehension.  If the directors ever want to be taken seriously by the market, they need to start complying with best reporting standards of the NZX, regardless of the super lax unlisted requirements.

Everyone seems laser focused on the potential for increased sales and not much thought is going into the huge increase in wages, interest costs and depreciation involved with all this new plant and equipment.  Only time will tell how this all translates into future eps growth and to what extent.  I think the indications provided regarding Q1 and Q2 trading is the first insight shareholders have got that just having new plant up, running and operational does not necessarily automatically mean eps will grow. Apart form the serious lack of disclosure the issue as I see it is, the current historic metrics are extremely demanding, (as previously noted), and super high growth in eps for several years is already baked into the current share price.  That growth might happen, or maybe eps growth will disappoint, time will tell.

[winner (n)]

ASM preso has lots of pictures of new buildings, machines and plant. All looks awesome.

Reminds me of Ray in that film 'if you build it, he/they will come'

Suppose that film had a nice ending