The retirement years

[Swala]

For that, we can blame the medical schools.  For 10 years now they have been selecting medical students based on race, and not on qualifications, meaning thousands of young people who wanted to be doctors, and who were the brightest in our country, were denied the opportunity to practice medicine. 

I would be interested to know what evidence you may have to support that statement.

[Hectorplains]

For that, we can blame the medical schools.  For 10 years now they have been selecting medical students based on race, and not on qualifications, meaning thousands of young people who wanted to be doctors, and who were the brightest in our country, were denied the opportunity to practice medicine. 

Here's the actual situation:

In 2020, Māori make up more than 16 percent of Aotearoa's population. Yet less than four percent of New Zealand's doctors are Māori. Less than two percent are Pasifika.  Māori and Pasifika health outcomes are among the worst of any demographic group in New Zealand.

Affirmative action policies to help diversify the health workforce have been in place for years.

Otago University's medical programme is one of the most competitive courses in the country, with more than a thousand students competing for about 280 places, both undergrad and postgrad.

A student's admission is based on their grade point average and performance in a clinical aptitude test.

But in 2012, the university introduced the Mirror on Society policy, giving priority entry to students from communities under-represented within the health workforce.

These include Māori and Pasifika students; students from rural or low socioeconomic backgrounds; and refugees.

In 2020 more than half the second-year medical placements at Otago went to students from these backgrounds.

They still have to meet the academic requirements - passing each of their papers at first try with more than 70 percent marks - but due to the hugely competitive nature of the course, students who achieve better marks but don't meet those categories can end up missing out on placements.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018763437/why-do-we-have-preferential-entry-into-med-school

[KW]

They still have to meet the academic requirements - passing each of their papers at first try with more than 70 percent marks - but due to the hugely competitive nature of the course, students who achieve better marks but don't meet those categories can end up missing out on placements.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018763437/why-do-we-have-preferential-entry-into-med-school

Not true. The 60% of special entry students do not have to meet the same academic requirements as the 40% of those selected in general entry.  The academic standard is far lower.  The academic standard used to be 90% not 70%, and still is for those not being selected based on race. Thus you have to then ask if those students are properly prepared for the academic rigour of the course - where is the data on those graduating or working in the system?  Its been this way for 11 years now and if the level of Maori/Pasifica doctors is still so low when they make up 60% of medical school intakes, then what happened to them post University?

It seems to me that we have swapped out people qualified to be doctors for people who did not qualify to be doctors, all in the name of social justice.  Now we find ourselves short of doctors, and you don't think there is a link between the two? 

[Untamed]

Can you please provide a source for this?

Not true. The 60% of special entry students do not have to meet the same academic requirements as the 40% of those selected in general entry.  The academic standard is far lower. The academic standard used to be 90% not 70%, and still is for those not being selected based on race. Thus you have to then ask if those students are properly prepared for the academic rigour of the course - where is the data on those graduating or working in the system?  Its been this way for 11 years now and if the level of Maori/Pasifica doctors is still so low when they make up 60% of medical school intakes, then what happened to them post University?

It seems to me that we have swapped out people qualified to be doctors for people who did not qualify to be doctors, all in the name of social justice.  Now we find ourselves short of doctors, and you don't think there is a link between the two? 

[KW]

Can you please provide a source for this?

Harry* is a bright and social 18-year-old who was always passionate about becoming a doctor. He was brought up in a well-off home by professional parents but family issues meant life was no bed of roses.

He completed the first year health science course at the University of Otago last year with an A+ average grade and also managed a top score in the required University Clinical Aptitude Test (UCAT). He was "absolutely gutted" and so were his parents when he was not accepted into Otago Medical School.

Incredibly, his academic results were not good enough. His disappointment was not helped by students with far lower grades and poorer UCAT results being accepted under special categories including Māori and Pasifika, rural and low socioeconomic.

Harry, of European descent, was not alone in his disappointment. Other European and Asian students faced similar setbacks. At least one family has threatened legal action.

At Otago that meant general entry students had to get, as one student put it, "ludicrously" high grades to be accepted. In fact candidates needed at least a 94 per cent average mark for their seven papers to get an offer


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300013258/medical-school-who-gets-in-and-why

[Untamed]

This is anecdotal evidence. Where is the actual official statement that outlines this lower requirement? I'm not saying you are wrong. I would just like to see the actual policy.

Harry* is a bright and social 18-year-old who was always passionate about becoming a doctor. He was brought up in a well-off home by professional parents but family issues meant life was no bed of roses.

He completed the first year health science course at the University of Otago last year with an A+ average grade and also managed a top score in the required University Clinical Aptitude Test (UCAT). He was "absolutely gutted" and so were his parents when he was not accepted into Otago Medical School.

Incredibly, his academic results were not good enough. His disappointment was not helped by students with far lower grades and poorer UCAT results being accepted under special categories including Māori and Pasifika, rural and low socioeconomic.

Harry, of European descent, was not alone in his disappointment. Other European and Asian students faced similar setbacks. At least one family has threatened legal action.

At Otago that meant general entry students had to get, as one student put it, "ludicrously" high grades to be accepted. In fact candidates needed at least a 94 per cent average mark for their seven papers to get an offer


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300013258/medical-school-who-gets-in-and-why

[Buzz]

These don't literally quantify the numbers selected for year-two med school, but it does outline the 'alternative criteria and sub-categories for selection'.

https://www.mytuition.nz/articles/high-school/a-guide-to-studying-medicine-in-new-zealand#mt-blog-med-school  "About nearly 300 students are admitted to Otago med each year, although this fluctuates year to year. Roughly 180 of these are through the HSFY route, with the rest from graduate and alternative entry."

https://www.otago.ac.nz/healthsciences/students/professional/medicine/#alternative   "Te Kauae Parāoa promotes and facilitates equity for students from underrepresented priority groups with the aim to produce a workforce that represents the communities it serves to improve health outcomes for all."

[Minimoke]

These don't literally quantify the numbers selected for year-two med school, but it does outline the 'alternative criteria and sub-categories for selection'.

https://www.mytuition.nz/articles/high-school/a-guide-to-studying-medicine-in-new-zealand#mt-blog-med-school  "About nearly 300 students are admitted to Otago med each year, although this fluctuates year to year. Roughly 180 of these are through the HSFY route, with the rest from graduate and alternative entry."

https://www.otago.ac.nz/healthsciences/students/professional/medicine/#alternative   "Te Kauae Parāoa promotes and facilitates equity for students from underrepresented priority groups with the aim to produce a workforce that represents the communities it serves to improve health outcomes for all."

The big issue I have with the Te Kauae Parāoa policy is people get special treatment based on their birth right. Rather than any actual emmersion in, commitment to cultural or socio-economic upbringing or improvement. I fail to see, how simply by function of birth this adds to anybody's ability to actually be a better doctor for the community they will serve.

[Henry Filth]

If you want to increase the vibrant diversity of your student body, it would seem sensible - from a per-capita funding perspective - to allocate extra places based on various criteria.

After all, if you're funded for $x per head, and you have applicants for 100 places, wouldn't you be better off - as an institution - to enrol 120 places at $x per head?

[Minimoke]

If you want to increase the vibrant diversity of your student body, it would seem sensible - from a per-capita funding perspective - to allocate extra places based on various criteria.

After all, if you're funded for $x per head, and you have applicants for 100 places, wouldn't you be better off - as an institution - to enrol 120 places at $x per head?

The aim should never be diversity. It should be merit.

If you focus on merit you will have diversity - because merit doesn't come from a socially engineered label placed on a person. The more vibrant your meritocracy, the more vibrant you diversity will be.

[Basil]

Any chance we could please get back on topic ?

[Minimoke]

Any chance we could please get back on topic ?

I'll give it a shot.

I'm getting closer to being eligible for Govt Super but not ready to retire. Strikes me that is a point in life where you draw a line in the sand and life starts to go down hill.

So, financially I am focussing on being financially self sufficient to lead a busy life.

I've also got activities that keeps me fit and social
- one activty purely fitness based > but fun and I get around the place meeing similalry minded peoepl
- another activity that is very physically demanding and gets me into nature
- another activity which has a club and gets me into peaceful nature
- and one that keeps my fine motor skills functioning.

I am planning to travel more. Someone here suggested Somalia. So I'll put that on the list. It will join North Korea as I have an interesting option to get in there. I already have lots of stamps in my passport so I aim to fill it as much as possible.

I'm thinking I might get a campervan. Or make one. But at this stage I'm not prepared to sacrifice speed and comfort to get from a to b.

Got my health. Most of my teeth and brain still functions most of the time. So I'm aiming to make as much use of these faculties for as long as I can.

[KW]

Australian Budget has a 15% pay increase for aged care workers.  Plus have dropped tax rates, so its now 30% tax rate on incomes $45k-$200k.  And this is a Labor Govt 

[Dolcile]

For those that have retired, particularly before the traditional age of 65, how did you determine that you had enough wealth?

And knowing what you do now, would you have retired earlier, or worked less, or worked longer?

I'm also interested in what asset allocation you are adopting in retirement I.e. Nz equities, bonds, international equities etc. 

Thank you

[Basil]

I posted a theoretical asset allocation strategy here.  https://stocktalk.co.nz/index.php?topic=299.0

How much is enough is a difficult question to answer as its determined as much by people's goals, aspirations, lifestyle and the cost of their hobbies as much as anything else.

Some people think the 4% rule has merit.  https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-percent-rule.asp#:~:text=Key%20Takeaways%201%20The%204%25%20rule%20says%20people,retiree%27s%20current%20and%20future%20financial%20needs.%20More%20items

For example, according to the Sorted website, the last time I looked at, https://sorted.org.nz/tools/retirement-calculator/ they reckoned a "choices" lifestyle in retirement you need about $1,600 per week.  N.Z. super now pays just a fraction under $1,600 per fortnight after tax to a married couple so if you had $1.04m and used the 4% rule that would be another $800 per week and give you a choices lifestyle.

Returning to the how much is enough; it all depends on what lifestyle you want.
I think if you use the 4% rule in conjunction with the link directly below, that will be useful.
This article is quite interesting https://www.opespartners.co.nz/retirement/costs

Full retirement may not be the "Nirvana" some people think it is.
Many people find working part time in their retirement years forfilling in terms of retaining a sense of purpose, people contact and if the work is well paid that's obviously a factor as well.  Those are the reasons I have kept working part time in my early 60's even though I could easily retire now.