Fisher Funds stocks

[LoungeLizard]

Thanks Basil for all your efforts.  It is as you say, deeply frustrating to see the same bunch of idiots that created this mess charged with trying to  clean it up!

Seems like investors are stuck with Fishers then. Would there be support for liquidation? Hard to say, but presumably investors would be paid out at, or close to Nav, and could then move on?
 
The Board are there to protect shareholder funds and if they can't strike a much tougher agreement with Fishers, then they should ask shareholders to vote on liquidation. 

[Basil]

MLN shareholders should note that they have underperformed the benchmark index on average for the last 5 years to an even worse extent than BRM. 1.8% gross return v 11.5% for the benchmark index = 9.7% per annum average underperformance, (BRM 7.8%).  Not much point me going to the MLN annual meeting and barking up a storm again as their management agreement is not up for renewal this year.  Hopefully the board negotiate a much better management agreement for BRM that forms a template for MLN's management agreement renegotiation in due course.

Its worth noting that IFT shareholders would be in exactly the same pickle with Morrisons extremely lucrative agreement if they were underperforming.

The way these initial management agreements are written up needs far greater scrutiny.  It appears they often confer egregiously excessive costs, effective control and are extremely difficult to break and also may have very weak checks and balances.   Same for many of the REIT's which have had to buy out their management agreements at grossly excessive cost.  Its a RORT !

[Left Field]

....It would seem at this point that Carmel Fisher wrote herself an almost watertight contract, in a similar way to Morrisons did with IFT that makes it extremely hard for the company to change fund managers. She's sold out for tens of millions, (undoubtedly more because of the tightness of the management contract), and left other investors holding the baby.

With respect Basil, this statement is potentially libelous in several respects.

 1.) Do you have any evidence to back up your claims regarding Carmel Fisher ?
2.)  Do you have any evidence of your claimed similarity in the various separate contracts arrranged by both Fisher Funds and Morrisons?
3.) Do you have any evidence to support your implication that IFT would like to change its management contract with Morrisons?

Lastly, while I can see ample evidence for your frustration with Fisher Funds, it is a stretch to compare this with IFT/Morrrisons where at the many IFT AGM's and investor presentations I have attended, I have heard only support for Morrisons who employ and motivate over 200 skilled staff, specialist advisors and consultants working all around the world in the best interests of IFT on much more complex investment deals and Board level management co-operation.

While shareholder activism is fine, you need to have evidence to support your claims and I invite you to share your evidence.

[Basil]

1. A copy of the original IPO documentation and management contract, albeit in places with very, very poor legibility has been shared on the other channel including the terms under which the management contract can be terminated and the break fee applicable.  You can read it for yourself, to the best of your ability, the terms of the management contract on there are very much in Fisher funds favour from what I can see.  https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/service/services/documents/35C731777F87CFB22C2ABCAC032DFAF2

2.  A.I. suggested to me to for IFT to break the contract the termination payment would amount to about 3 years of their fees plus any unpaid incentive fees. From memory one of the brokers recently estimated this amounts to about 5 years normal fees.

3. I never claimed IFT wanted to break it.  I have stated its extremely lucrative for Morrisons and very expensive for IFT.  That is an undisputed fact.

Maybe you should try some shareholder activism yourself sometime and try making a difference for others rather than just buying endless popcorn, doing nothing for anyone else and feeling entitled to critique others hard work.

[Basil]

I sold out a few months ago, but will buy them back again on this coming Tuesday just to go to the AGM if you want some moral support   

Thanks for coming along yesterday and showing your support mate.  Its always a pleasure catching up with you.  That's a very cool new vehicle you bought with your Fonterra dividends.  You have impeccable taste  I'm very pleased to hear you're doing well in the market this year.  Good for you.

[seaweed]

Thanks for coming along yesterday and showing your support mate.  Its always a pleasure catching up with you.  That's a very cool new vehicle you bought with your Fonterra dividends.  You have impeccable taste  I'm very pleased to hear you're doing well in the market this year.  Good for you.

Thanks Basil. It was a very entertaining morning and nice lunch. Good on you for giving them a good telling off. And good on the other share holders joining in the scolding and the liquidation man. It reminded me of the old days with Bruce Sheppard and Brian Gaynor. Even though I spent $15,130 for my entry tickets I was not allowed to vote as my tickets were bought a bit late, but they still let me in to the show and lunch. Yes the car is going very well and getting somewhere between 800km to 900km on a tank of gas...55 litres. Am looking forward to the next MLN & KFL shows

[Basil]

The Trust I'm on also owns some MLN shares but MLN's management contract is not up for renewal so any activism there is probably wasted effort other than to get some commitment that any new BRM management agreement will be a template for MLN's agreement when it comes up for renewal but I think that's pretty much a given anyway from comments on Friday.  If I've got nothing better to do next Friday I might go along and do some more barking just to wind the directors up, (MLN 5 year performance relative to benchmark is actually worse that BRM !).  I'll decide on the day whether to go or not.  I could kick off the proceedings with, Its me again, as staggeringly difficult as this is to believe, the manager here has made an even bigger mess than Robbie !  I didn't think that was even possible !  I'm sure that would get their attention lol

[Left Field]

Maybe you should try some shareholder activism yourself sometime and try making a difference for others rather than just buying endless popcorn, doing nothing for anyone else and feeling entitled to critique others hard work.

Typical Basil response avoiding valid questions,  while attempting to deflect attention away from his flawed statements comparing Fisher Funds/BRM to Morrisons/IFT.

The reason I don't have to resort to shareholder activism is that I have never invested in BRM or Fisher Funds nor ramped it as Basil has.

It's also apparent that Basil has little knowledge of the IFT/Morrisons management contract other than vague generalisations about how the Morrisons contract "with IFT that makes it extremely hard for the company to change fund managers."  and is " extremely lucrative for Morrisons and very expensive for IFT."

If Basil took the time to watch the following October 2026 NZX presentation by the IFT CEO, he may note the CEO mentions that  IFT was founded by Lloyd Morrison in 1994 and since that time has averaged annual returns to shareholders exceeding 17% pa and in the process has grown international assets to circa $20 Billion Dollars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgDen6-OQcA

Considering IFT's record of healthy annual returns and it's asset growth, what a management contract that Basil calls "expensive' or "lucrative" or "difficult to change" may also be seen as prudent management for an organisation with a current Market Cap of $12.5 Billion versus BRM's paltry $158 Million.

Unfortunately Fishers/BRM investors have found truth in the adage;  'if you pay peanuts; you get monkeys.'

The following 10 year SP comparison shows why my IFT shareholder activism isn't needed and why Basil has plenty of work yet to do with his BRM/Fishers investments, while I prefer to spend my retired years traveling, playing sports and enjoying my grandchildren.

[Basil]

Questions asked were answered.  The fact is that until three years ago, MLN, BRM and KFL were all handsomely outperforming their benchmarks when I was an investor.  My activism is purely for the benefit of others, clearly a concept that's lost on you.

[LoungeLizard]

I'm not a holder of any of the Fisher funds, and I'm glad I resisted the temptation. I feel for those that have been left high and dry, as the ordinary investor would have thought - not unreasonably - that a diversified professional managed fund would be as safe place to put their savings. That's what riles me the most - the utter disregard that the Board and Fisher have had for their duty of care in managing what I imagine in a lot of cases will be peoples retirement savings.

The comparison in any way between the structure and management of IFT with what has gone on in Fisher is ludicrous. I don't know why those that don't invest in IFT continually try to invent ways to run the business down, even when faced with indisputable historical data of its sustained performance. Or maybe that's just what it is - performance envy??

[Basil]

The comparison in any way between the structure and management of IFT with what has gone on in Fisher is ludicrous.

I realise you holders are super sensitive when IFT is in such a clear downtrend but surely even with half of one eye open you can see that all I was saying is that Morrisons wrote themselves a water tight contract, just like Carmel Fisher did, that would be extremely expensive to break, even more so than this BRM, KFL and MLN group, IF, (did you read that word if, its said there as plain as day, maybe open the other eye so you can read it) IF IFT shareholders ever did want to break Morrisons contract.  I didn't say they currently do want to break it.

If you can find it in yourself to climb down off your high sanctimonious horse for a minute, you might be able to see that all I was suggesting is that the way these management contracts are initially written needs close scrutiny and the same goes for the management contracts of the REIT's.  This sort of RORT, (buying out management contracts that the mangers wrote for themselves, for enormous sums of money), has been going on for decades, pioneered in fact by Bob Jones with Trans Tasman Properties.  Many other's have come along to unduly fleece shareholders of their money since then.

Gosh the sensitivity of some of you IFT zealots is breathtaking to say the least.
 

[LoungeLizard]

I realise you holders are super sensitive when IFT is in such a clear downtrend but surely even with half of one eye open you can see that all I was saying is that Morrisons wrote themselves a water tight contract, just like Carmel Fisher did, that would be extremely expensive to break, even more so than this BRM, KFL and MLN group, IF, (did you read that word if, its said there as plain as day, maybe open the other eye so you can read it) IF IFT shareholders ever did want to break Morrisons contract.  I didn't say they currently do want to break it.

If you can find it in yourself to climb down off your high sanctimonious horse for a minute, you might be able to see that all I was suggesting is that the way these management contracts are initially written needs close scrutiny and the same goes for the management contracts of the REIT's.  This sort of RORT, (buying out management contracts that the mangers wrote for themselves, for enormous sums of money), has been going on for decades, pioneered in fact by Bob Jones with Trans Tasman Properties.  Many other's have come along to unduly fleece shareholders of their money since then.

Gosh the sensitivity of some of you IFT zealots is breathtaking to say the least.
 

Come off it Basil. Anyone can see that you have a long history at disparaging IFT and those that have done well in investing in them. Don't make me have to copy and paste all you negative comments- it would take all day.

It is breath-taking hypocrisy that someone as notoriously thin-skinned as yourself should accuse anyone else of being sensitive to criticism. Most of us can acknowledge when we make an error in our picks - you can't get it right every time - but when have you ever held your hand up and said - well I got that one wrong? Never. Again your long history of boastful postings could take hours to read.

It is crystal clear that you don't understand the investment case for IFT and what you don't understand you criticise. You are hidebound to simple PE calculations as if that is the only way of investing. You missed the boat on IFT because of that narrow view and now you can't simply say well done to those that saw the potential 10 years ago and have had about 17% return every year since.

Unfortunately, as I have said before, you see everything as a game of one-up-man-ship rather than acknowledging that there are different ways to invest and that others that take a different approach - eg invest in IFT - can also do very well.