TRA - Turners Automotive Group

[lorraina]

Looks as though I may keep the Nissan awhile longer.Coming up to it 20th birthday next year.
Flew through a warrant the other day.What a fantastic car.Getting to be up with a Toyota.lol.

[Minimoke]

Just as an aside, a PSA on the whole hybrid / PHEV and EV thing.
I think we are all cognizant that there is highly likely to be big changes in the incentives if National get in and most should be aware that road user charges will be applied from 1 April 2024 ($76 per 1,000 km's) so the combined effect of that will seriously undermine the attractiveness of these sort of cars taking into account their much higher initial capex outlay.

What's not so widely known is the disappointing fuel economy people are getting from hybrids in the real world.  What they say on the official fuel economy sticker and what you get are two very different things.
Couple of examples to illustrate might help.  In 2022 Wheels magazine did a massive test of (from  memory) over a dozen medium SUV's to determine their car of the year, (Won by The Kia Sportage), Mrs Beagle has one now.  I was fascinated to note that they observed that the fuel economy of the Kia Sportage diesel, (which we have) in the real world as tested was almost exactly the same as the much-hyped Toyota Rav4 hybrid which have sold in huge numbers at a substantial premium to what we paid for a non hybrid diesel.

Another real world example is we bought a new Honda Civic hybrid in 2007 which had an official fuel economy rating of 4.6 L/100km's and we got in the low 7's in the real world.  Ironically her 2 generations later ICE Honda Civic we replaced that vehicle with in 2016 also got in the low 7's (liters per 100 km's)

The other very nasty surprise many people are getting with used hybrids is battery replacement costs.  It's not uncommon for people to not only be very disappointed with the substantial variance in real world fuel consumption v what's claimed, but also to get hit around the head with a bill for (common for Toyota hybrids) $6,000 - $8,000 bill for a replacement battery when it dies at about the 8-10 year mark.

Our user experience with the above-mentioned Civic hybrid was the battery started performing really poorly, (almost dead), at the 9 years mark and the thousands of dollars cost to replace it made it more economic to trade the vehicle in and let it be someone else's problem.  I suspect a lot of the hybrids coming in from overseas have batteries that are towards the end of their life and buyers will find out sooner or later that the pretty minor fuel economy benefits they're getting come with a very nasty sting in their tail.

Heck even my very fancy gold Seiko Contura solar watch that cost me about $1,000 8 years ago has started not keeping time properly and I found out it too is not a true solar watch but has a lithium ion rechargeable battery that is almost dead.  I am sure we have all experienced the gradual deterioration of batteries in our laptops, phones and even electric toothbrushes.  The same thing happens with hybrid cars.  They're not all they are cracked up to be when you start factoring in battery replacement costs every 8-10 years or so.

People seems to be sold on the value of virtuousness.

But not on the Total Cost of Ownership.

[Ricky Bobby]

I took a Toyota Highlander hybrid for a spin a couple weeks back and was surprised that the difference between that and my current v6 Highlander was bugger all... can't quite remember but it was under 2ltr/100k difference.... They arnt bringing the v6 into the country anymore, which sux!

[Basil]

People seems to be sold on the value of virtuousness.

But not on the Total Cost of Ownership.

I think that sum's it up quite nicely in many cases but I think there's widespread ignorance about the issues I talked about earlier today.  I feel for families struggling to afford the basics with cost of living who buy an imported used hybrid vehicle thinking that's going to help them and then find themselves getting "king hit" with a completely unexpected $8,000 hybrid battery replacement bill they have no hope of being able to afford.

[SmallSteps]

I think that sum's it up quite nicely in many cases but I think there's widespread ignorance about the issues I talked about earlier today.  I feel for families struggling to afford the basics with cost of living who buy an imported used hybrid vehicle thinking that's going to help them and then find themselves getting "king hit" with a completely unexpected $8,000 hybrid battery replacement bill they have no hope of being able to afford.

Depends on what you buy IMO.
I had a 2003 Toyota Estima 2.4l, replaced it with a 2011 Camry Hybrid 2.5l, spent the cash on a full hybrid inspection including battery SOH, battery was at 84% iirc, so yes, a bit reduced. Camry costs almost half as much to run (petrol) as the Estima. When needed, can buy an aftermarket battery pack with 36 month / 40000kms warranty $2120 each.
I've had it for about 3 years, with no issues so far. Definitely less good than a new one, but no massive depreciation / initial purchase cost. TBH I would be more concerned about the CVT.
I didn't want a diesel as they aren't great for constant short runs, plus RUC's etc. If I was happy with a small car I would have gone for a small economical petrol vehicle - but I hate small cars because I need to cary stuff around, and I am just under 6 foot 4.

[Basil]

Yeap, CVT's another ticking time bomb in a lot of vehicles, not just hybrids.  Hate the things and to be avoided if possible.  I think it's likely your Camry hybrid already had its first battery replacement before you bought it otherwise it doesn't seem feasible it would be at 84% capacity when it was 8-9 years old when you bought it.  DCT transmissions also to be avoided, if possible, in my opinion.  Lot of taxi drivers use those Camry hybrids so maybe they really are pretty efficient?

Anyway...back to Turners.  I did a small top-up today.  Still trades cum the 6 cents fully imputed FY24 Q1 dividend.  Ex date is 10 October.

[SmallSteps]

Yeap, CVT's another ticking time bomb in a lot of vehicles, not just hybrids.  Hate the things and to be avoided if possible.  I think it's likely your Camry hybrid already had its first battery replacement before you bought it otherwise it doesn't seem feasible it would be at 84% capacity when it was 8-9 years old when you bought it.  DCT transmissions also to be avoided, if possible, in my opinion.  Lot of taxi drivers use those Camry hybrids so maybe they really are pretty efficient?

Anyway...back to Turners.  I did a small top-up today.  Still trades cum the 6 cents fully imputed FY24 Q1 dividend.  Ex date is 10 October.

It had done about 75000ks when I got it. Yep, it's already been nicknamed the "uber" car.  I did figure that if so many are Taxis it's probably a good sign.

Typically, I bought Turners on the way up, so am still down on the deal (not by much).  Will probably drop a few if they get into NZX50 and do a climb later this year. They are one of my larger holdings (I'm not a big scale investor though).

[BlackPeter]

I think that sum's it up quite nicely in many cases but I think there's widespread ignorance about the issues I talked about earlier today.  I feel for families struggling to afford the basics with cost of living who buy an imported used hybrid vehicle thinking that's going to help them and then find themselves getting "king hit" with a completely unexpected $8,000 hybrid battery replacement bill they have no hope of being able to afford.

True, but lets face it - if a buyer these days does not know that they need to replace an EV battery every 8 to 10 years (and that this is expensive), than they clearly didn't do their research. So, my sympathy for them would be limited.

We bought our KIA Sportage Diesel (good car, btw) around the same time as you bought yours and I had at that stage as well a hybrid on the shortlist. Of course did I add the cost for a new battery to the required budget (and yes, the Diesel did win).

[lorraina]

I wonder if replacement batteries will half in price over the next decade.?

[BlackPeter]

I wonder if replacement batteries will half in price over the next decade.?

Assuming the electrification of our car fleet continues, they probably will. But the discussion was more about the first pack you have to pay for soon after buying a cheap 8 yr old hybrid (or EV). Does not help if its cheaper in 10 years ...

[lorraina]

Correct,but helps me in my  choice of next vehicle,which at this stage is either a Toyota or Suzuki hybrid.
Leaning towards the Suzuki as Hollands Suzuki are only a short distance from where I live.
Just have to get my 75 year old driver's licence first.?

[Onemootpoint]

We considered the then new Suzuki Swift hybrid in 2020 to replace an existing Swift as a runabout. But I recall being a bit underwhelmed by the hybrid performance in the sense that the advantages gained were not particularly remarkable, or perhaps I should say not at great as I had hoped.

In any case; moved on....kept our existing Swift for a while and it is still going strong being used by another family member.

The Turners subscription model is interesting. May be useful for when one needs an additional vehicle for a short term.

[lorraina]

Thanks for your post.
Two years ago I did some research on hybrid Suzuki and Toyota.
The Toyota was far superior,however you had to pay a lot extra for it.
The beauty with Hollands Suzuki is you receive 5 years free service including, free tyres.Only pay for petrol,insurance and registration.
I have been hopeful Suzuki may have improved their Hybrid,as I have been in no hurry to buy another vehicle.
The Nissan is going well and is still in excellent order having travelled under 80,000 klm,but will be 20 years old next year..

[Basil]

The Suzuki system is very similar to early Honda Civic hybrid systems.  It's an integrated motor assist which adds a small boost to the engine at times and collects energy going down hills with regenerative braking.  It won't be all that much use on the super flat Christchurch area.
Suzuki are built to a very tight budget in India.  They're very basic cars for people to get from A to B.
Deep down inside, you know you really want a Jaguar before you are too old to enjoy one

Anyway back to Turners.  6 trading days before they go ex the 6 cent fully imputed Q1 dividend. 2 months to the day when its highly likely it will be announced they are joining the NZX50.

[lorraina]

Jaguar.Another fine Indian car...lol.