Long Covid

[KW]

You know how the Govt banged on about how Maori were far more likely to die from Covid than Europeans, and that's why they have preferential access to anti virals and other priority healthcare?  Turns out that's a complete lie as well.  Since April 2022 more Europeans per 100k of population have died than Maori.  Seems that denying European New Zealanders access to the drugs is literally hanging them out to die, not that this Govt cares one iota



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[Basil]

If you have time can you please make a formal compliant to the Race Relations commissioner about this.
I am sick and tired of this racism, (favorable access to antivirals but only if you are the preferred ethnicity) directed at Europeans.
https://tikatangata.org.nz/about-us/meng-foon
I will do the same.

[Minimoke]

You know how the Govt banged on about how Maori were far more likely to die from Covid than Europeans, and that's why they have preferential access to anti virals and other priority healthcare?  Turns out that's a complete lie as well.  Since April 2022 more Europeans per 100k of population have died than Maori.  Seems that denying European New Zealanders access to the drugs is literally hanging them out to die, not that this Govt cares one iota



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I haven't looked for a while but always thought it was the elderly with comorbidities most at risk.

[KW]

Just to rub salt in the wound Basil, the Govt just announced that free medical care for Covid will cease, unless you are Maori, then you still get free GP visits.  
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/covid-19-coronavirus-general-practice-funding-cut-as-majority-of-cases-treated-as-mild-infection/MS75UMYF6RBWHBEOFOVBMHU4ZU/

[arekaywhy]

I seem to recall some sort of protests in little ol' enzed about this 40 odd years ago...

[BlackPeter]

It feels this thread starts again to turn away from the thread title ... if people feel like government bashing or supporting the antis ... maybe they could pick the right thread to avoid annoying everybody else.

[KW]

It feels this thread starts again to turn away from the thread title ... if people feel like government bashing or supporting the antis ... maybe they could pick the right thread to avoid annoying everybody else.

We are discussing treatment availability for covid - it literally could not be MORE relevant.  No treatment, more likely to be sicker and end up with long covid. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/07/health/paxlovid-long-covid.html
"People who took the antiviral drug Paxlovid within a few days after being infected with the coronavirus were less likely to be experiencing long Covid several months later, a large new study found.
The findings suggest that for people who are medically eligible for the antiviral — older adults or people with certain health problems — Paxlovid not only reduces the odds that they will be hospitalized or die from a coronavirus infection, but also lowers their risk of long-term symptoms."

[Basil]

Just to rub salt in the wound Basil, the Govt just announced that free medical care for Covid will cease, unless you are Maori, then you still get free GP visits. 
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/covid-19-coronavirus-general-practice-funding-cut-as-majority-of-cases-treated-as-mild-infection/MS75UMYF6RBWHBEOFOVBMHU4ZU/

More race based favoritism, I'm so "happy"

[blackcap]

Look - it is quite disappointing that you consistently work with "well, it was fine for me and my relatives".

Sounds like the story with six people playing Russian roulette in a room with a revolver: five came out of the room and told us that everything was fine. Number six didn't made a statement, so we assume she agreed, don't we?

Does this mean that Russian Roulette is a safe game?

I know as well people who tell me it is safe to drive without safety belt. Dumb people, but hey - they survived so far, so they must be right?

Some people say as well its safe to smoke. Dumb people, but hey - they survived so far, so they must be right?

Some people say drink driving is safe, they did it before and they are still around. Do I need to say more?

and yes, some people mock the Covid measures, because they happened to belong to the people who came through quite fine. Why care about the rest ... ?

Congratulations that Covid worked out for you and your family, but making policies based on a statistically absolutely irrelevant number would be pretty dumb, actually braindead populism.

But yes, you are right - populism is always braindead, i.e. this statement was a duplication ;

It's called personal responsibility. If you are fat and have comorbidities, by all means lock yourself down. Don't stop others from going about their business. The lockdowns were a disaster economically, mentally and everything else. Martin Lally (my former finance prof) has come out recently and stated the cost of lockdowns far outweighed the benefits and lives lost. By a country mile.

[Untamed]

Do we really need the fat shaming? I'm fat but I still haven't had covid 

It's called personal responsibility. If you are fat and have comorbidities, by all means lock yourself down. Don't stop others from going about their business. The lockdowns were a disaster economically, mentally and everything else. Martin Lally (my former finance prof) has come out recently and stated the cost of lockdowns far outweighed the benefits and lives lost. By a country mile.

[BlackPeter]

It's called personal responsibility. If you are fat and have comorbidities, by all means lock yourself down. Don't stop others from going about their business. The lockdowns were a disaster economically, mentally and everything else. Martin Lally (my former finance prof) has come out recently and stated the cost of lockdowns far outweighed the benefits and lives lost. By a country mile.

You make this sound as if it is all just the fault of the people who are in danger of dying from COVID? Anybody who used to have cancer at some stage in their life - must be their own fault, why didn't they die than instead of being now a burden to the healthy people like you who just want to have fund? Anybody who is suffering from an autoimmune disease? Must be their own fault, why didn't they pick parents with a better set of genes?

Is this really who you are?

[blackcap]

You make this sound as if it is all just the fault of the people who are in danger of dying from COVID? Anybody who used to have cancer at some stage in their life - must be their own fault, why didn't they die than instead of being now a burden to the healthy people like you who just want to have fund? Anybody who is suffering from an autoimmune disease? Must be their own fault, why didn't they pick parents with a better set of genes?

Is this really who you are?

You are totally taking my post out of context. There was no need to lock down. There was/is more cost to society by locking down and thus more people going to die than we saved. Always the way it was going to be. Listen to Dr Lally and his analysis. We put a $ value on peoples lives. We spent a hell of a lot of money saving a few for covid. We spent so much, that we forgot about all the other diseases and future generations are going to pay and suffer.

Pharmac and other agencies every day make the evaluation of how many people they will allow to die. They could fund all the drugs that are required but do not. There is a reason for that. The same analysis should have applied to covid but did not.

Nothing to do with better genes or autoimmunity. That is a red-herring.

[BlackPeter]

You are totally taking my post out of context. There was no need to lock down. There was/is more cost to society by locking down and thus more people going to die than we saved. Always the way it was going to be. Listen to Dr Lally and his analysis. We put a $ value on peoples lives. We spent a hell of a lot of money saving a few for covid. We spent so much, that we forgot about all the other diseases and future generations are going to pay and suffer.

Pharmac and other agencies every day make the evaluation of how many people they will allow to die. They could fund all the drugs that are required but do not. There is a reason for that. The same analysis should have applied to covid but did not.

Nothing to do with better genes or autoimmunity. That is a red-herring.

I didn't take anything out of context and cited your whole post.

However - if that's what you wanted to say (instead of doing some bashing of people with health conditions), than I understand and accept your claimed intent.

Absolutely - we all put a price on human life every day, and we are as well happy to accept some loss of life to not inconvenience us too much. We accept people dying of car crashes and balance that vs the economic benefits of individual transport as well as the freedom of the survivors to drive around. We accept people dying from the flu and put that over asking sick people to stay at home. We accept people dying because we don't want to buy them the expensive medicine which could extend their life.

We are as well happy to accept people killing others because they can't control their urges (like drinking, smoking) ... sure, sometimes we might lock one of the perpetrators up afterwards, but the result - we accepted another unnecessary death is quite the same.

Having said that - much easier to criticise the Covid restrictions with the benefit of hindsight than making an optimal decision without the knowledge we now have at the time. Given it was a new disease mortality and long time effects have been unknown. Do you really want to bash politicians for trying to be cautious instead of implementing a she'll be right mentality without prior knowing the odds?

For some funny reason we don't like too many people dying (particularly if we are attached to them) - i.e. this is a no-no for any politician who wants to be re-elected.

Still - comparing NZ at the time with other countries I'd say we faired pretty well. Sure - not ideal, but I don't see too many countries who did much better.

But sure, it depends, what value you put on your and other peoples life. I hear in the US more Republicans than Democrats died of Covid, and I am sure each of them was happily burying their own family and rejoiced when their own lungs stopped working for the freedom to not wear a mask or not to have a lockdown. They clearly have their priorities, and if you fight for the right of every halfwit to wear automatic weapons, then - what difference does it make whether your family dies of COVID or gets killed by said halfwit? Dead is dead.

Just a question of values and priorities.

But yes, we might put different values on the freedom for others to take human life, but in principle - your observation that we put a monetary value on every life is correct.

[Minimoke]

...

But yes, we might put different values on the freedom for others to take human life, but in principle - your observation that we put a monetary value on every life is correct.

There is a number for the value of a NZ human life. As I recall its around $6.7m. Cost / benefit discussions can be done off that base.

[KW]

Here you go Basil, you should be able to get your hands on this stuff

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/affordable-diabetes-drug-reduces-long-covid-risk-41-percent-study