Why isn't there are thread on this yet?
Checked history but looking solid lately.
Price holding up well given recent downturn in consumer confidence.
Looks set to ride out the current environment.
Likely plenty of time to get in. On the watchlist.
A Peter Lynch specialty.
Apparently Warren and Charlie both post on here as well, we must be in good company.
WHS does seem to be holding up
Excellent advice. Thanks for posting 8)
BOOM
my WHS are back in the green ;D
for my sanity I like to celebrate every win...... however fleeting it may be
https://finnewsnetwork.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4e327af0b9377422183e60879&id=b16b7052f7&e=2039e3d3d1
Noel Leeming been losing market share since middle of last year (when that guy left TWG)
And JB HiFi quarterly sales growth been better than NL of late
Don't go to the warehouse very often these days but ended up going last week and found only about 3 customers in huge store.
Everyone is hating on it so it might be a good buy LOL
I have a feeling WHS Will come out next week to give an idea how the year that ended July 31 went
And probably won't be that good
Heard that some very well off f(like rich) families are spending these days more money with the warehouse group (red sheds, Torpedo 7, the market) than we used to.... and even going down there to buy butter, flour and some other food essentials ..... like no matter what we all need the basics of life eh
Many say the more stressed househoulds are trading down but it seems the well off are as well
Only anecdotal but suggests WHG could be doing rather well at the moment
Anecdotal or fact ..... some say if you need to choose between anecdotes or facts it's often better to chose anecdotes.
We'll know in a week or so how well 'could be doing rather well' is
Stats NZ Electronic Card Spend data for August month just out
Core Retail (basically everything but vehicle related and non retail / services) up 2.1% on July (seasonally adjusted) ..... and up 25% on August last year when we were locked down.
So people still spending .... good sign for WHS prospects and ongoing good divie
Jeez winner, did the wind change between your last two posts...I think you've got it covered somewhere between doing well and not doing well. Lol
From my observations in store I think only some categories of their groceries will be moving well but they will have margin pressure as there discounted heavily below market price to move them
I notice the last few weeks grocery offers via their app have pretty much dried up.
Disc. Not a holder but interested in their grocery experiment and interested to what comes next in this category
Thanks Winner...I bought back a few of the ones I sold to Nick last year for $4.10. Hope he wasn't selling me back the ones I sold him LOL.
I think what you suggested has merit. I suspect most comfortably well off people are happy to compromise their feel good upmarket shopping experience to slum it with normal people in the WHS at times like this.
On the other hand sales at Noel Leeming might have taken a hit. It will be fascinating to see how they are going when they report later this month.
Probably not a bad hold as an income stock as part of a very well diversified portfolio.
Quote from: Perky on Sep 09, 2022, 11:25 AMJeez winner, did the wind change between your last two posts...I think you've got it covered somewhere between doing well and not doing well. Lol
From my observations in store I think only some categories of their groceries will be moving well but they will have margin pressure as there discounted heavily below market price to move them
I notice the last few weeks grocery offers via their app have pretty much dried up.
Disc. Not a holder but interested in their grocery experiment and interested to what comes next in this category
The wind changes whether one thinks they should be doing suoer well (living up to Nick's hype) or have just another ordinary year
They are an enigma really but no matter what's thrown at them they'll probably manage 80m/100m 'adjusted profit' a year .... and this year it'ssprobably be 90m
That's enough for a 20 cent divie so OK
Don't overlook that Mr Tindal needs that divie for his Foundation so he'll make sure as much as possible is paid out
Yes well I think the Whs should be doing super well every year...
I think they could be ordinary this year..weighed down by noels coming off Covid tailwinds, torpedo 7 will be so so and red sheds will have sold a lot of milk, flour and butter which kept customers happy but shareholders poor as the selling price of these items is unsustainable. The grocery experiment will end in a whimper and they will go in search of the next category nirvana after they already exited finance,jewelry, Whs xtra, alcohol, Australia...silly solly etc. The market will still be selling heaps but costing heaps to run selling other businesses products.
By jiggery pokery of group numbers the dividend will still be paid
Maybe when the economy slows a bit more the red shed will go better. Not enough pain yet
I could be also be horribly wrong so GLH
Even though I'm not a holder it's an interesting company to follow with its diversity of product mix and sales channels that aren't always closely related in performance ie when Noel's goes well whs probably not and vice versa..when they get all bits going north ...that's the year
Yes Perky, WHS performance is interesting and I have a morbid fascination in tracking their progress over the years. At least for some of this century I got paid for doing so.
Red Sheds particularly interesting - like there has been only a couple of years that their sales have grown faster than overall core retail sales in NZ - in other words they lose share of total retail.
Even during bad times for consumers like GFC they lose share .... their sales actually declined during 2008/2010 .....maybe this 'theory' that in bad times punters flock to the everyday low price Red Shed isn't really a thing
Cool chart eh
00000whsvmarket.JPG
Your my favourite poster winner. I learn a lot from you posts. It's pretty clear you have a lifetime of knowledge and experience in this game. Cheers.
I think the fundamental problem is the warehouse product categories are just average. They need to pick something meaningful and relevant and become the leader in that so people go back year after year after year. Like Kmart has done with its homeware, or m&s in uk for basics or ikea for furniture. Just do something that people want and do it well. Just buying sschmutter and putting it in a big box gets the result you chart shows.
When was the last time you raced into the Whs to get the best (insert item name)
Hope you get the financial result you want but I don't think it make makes difference to a speedy azz operator like yourself. You've probably moved before the rest of us have woken up to what's going on.
Can't replace experience and knowledge eh.
At least we share a morbid fascination with the big red sheds
Quote from: Perky on Sep 09, 2022, 02:20 PMYes well I think the Whs should be doing super well every year...
I think they could be ordinary this year..weighed down by noels coming off Covid tailwinds, torpedo 7 will be so so and red sheds will have sold a lot of milk, flour and butter which kept customers happy but shareholders poor as the selling price of these items is unsustainable. The grocery experiment will end in a whimper and they will go in search of the next category nirvana after they already exited finance,jewelry, Whs xtra, alcohol, Australia...silly solly etc. The market will still be selling heaps but costing heaps to run selling other businesses products.
By jiggery pokery of group numbers the dividend will still be paid
Maybe when the economy slows a bit more the red shed will go better. Not enough pain yet
I could be also be horribly wrong so GLH
Even though I'm not a holder it's an interesting company to follow with its diversity of product mix and sales channels that aren't always closely related in performance ie when Noel's goes well whs probably not and vice versa..when they get all bits going north ...that's the year
Welcome to the forum. When that's the year the smart ones sell at $4.10 -$4.15 to Nick and other insiders and then buy them back for ~ $3 later on. ;D
Yes Basil, I've noted your good entry and exit calls from time to time and on the Whs. You are my second favourite poster. Learnt some good fundamental analysis from you..just can't keep up with all your flip flopping on some shares and whether your in or out ...but maybe your the trader in the mix and there nothing wrong with that.
That's why winners #1...a bit more mysterious...I wouldn't have a clue what he's holding buying or selling.
Anyway keep up the good work and if you still holding Whs..all the best. I hope all holders makes some $$
Appreciate all the time you put into posting your thoughts. It really helps us novices hear different views and challenge our own thinking.
Thanks Perky.
For what its worth, (and I am probably well and truly overdue to get egg on my face with timing on this one so its probably not worth much), I am currently slowly accumulating back some more WHS in the lead up to the result. I suspect their sales will prove to be more resilient than many others think.
That said, its mainly an income stock in my opinion and the average analysts 12 month price target of $3.71 seems unlikely to me given the clear cost of living challenges prevailing.
Good for you. You could very well be right on sales but I'm not convinced. Your prior trading entry/exits give you some fat to play with.
I'm a bit on the fence myself with Whs. Held Whs years ago but haven't been in for a while.
I'd consider if the price drops a bit more to give me some safety to hold thru a reasonable period of time.
I'm not skilful enough to enter and exit over a short time frame with any confidence so I tend to be a buy and hold.
I'm thinking interest rates haven't finished rising yet and could be a bit of volatility in market during sept/Oct. I'm in the inflation will be higher and longer lasting camp..particularly internationally.
Just got to remind myself the market is forward looking and I could still be sitting on that same fence wondering how I missed out when the market moves.
Still find following the Whs interesting...they have been on a fascinating ride over the years. Now today I find out Winner used to make money from the Whs without even buying or selling the shares...just selling his time.
Could be worth my own while next week reflecting on some of my previous thoughts pondering whether to get any more ?
30 March 2022
QuoteI'm happy with how WHS are travelling. I am very impressed with how they performed in the latest half year considering the extraordinary challenges they faced with a 107 day lockdown in the wider Auckland region. They came through that very well indeed and their balance sheet is in excellent shape with $150m in cash (43 cps) and no debt.
The metrics are compelling. They trade cum a 10 cent fully imputed dividend and the average broker price target is $3.70 and on the same day
Some more red shed consolidation is to be expected. Store within a store will bring more efficiencies as will more self scanning checkouts. Don't forget WHS encompasses the extremely well run Noel Leeming and up and coming Torpedo 7.
Brokers are forecasting net profit of $98.7m rising to $107m in FY23 and $115m in FY24. Any rationalization of the spend on themarket.com would see those figures grow by ~ 25% and lead to an immediate commensurate share price appreciation in my opinion.
https://www.marketscreener.com/quote...64/financials/
Probably a very good income stock is how I see it in a nutshell.
Where's the growth going to come from in FY23 and FY24 ? Well for a start its very unlikely there be another 107 day lockdown for 1.6 million people in the Auckland region.
eps is forecast at 31 cps in FY23 rising to 33 cps in FY24.
On a net price of $3.14 (3.24 - 10 cent divvy back shortly) that's a PE of only 10.1 in FY23 and only 9.5 in FY24.
One is paying a no growth PE but getting the growth in earnings for nothing and while you wait you're getting the best gross yield on the market of 10.8% (Average dividend forecast for FY23 and FY24 is 24.5 cps / 0.72 = 34 cps gross / 314 current share price)
I get it the others have more refined business models, (believe me mate I didn't come down in the last shower), and their pricing fully reflects that and the much lower yield reflects for example HLG's better growth prospects. You know I have a lot of respect for HLG but the current year PE of about 20 is at an all time high and their yield with the low level of imputation is at an all time low. I bought that stock when it was totally unloved (like WHS is now) on a dirt cheap PE and a gross yield of 15% @ $2.75. Now the yield is just on 5%.
I'm a value investor Percy. I stick to what I know works for the Beagle fund. I reiterate the forward yield is 10.8% and the average broker price target is $3.70 which on a dividend adjusted buy price of $3.14 gives a ~ 18 % upside on top of that outstanding yield.
Briscoes has been around for donkey's years so any comment they will affect WHS is baseless. If anything, people will be trading down in brands in the current environment. Costco, 1 store, wow, I am trembling in fear lol
Everyone was telling me HLG were done for back in 2016 with Zara and I forget all the other clothing retailers that were supposed to smash them into oblivion. Believe me, I've heard it all before many, many times.
21 April 2022
Brokers remain really bullish with an average price target of $3.70 and a BUY rating.
Forecasting 20 cps fully imputed dividends this year rising to 24 cents in FY23 and 25 in FY24.
FY23 PE only 10.3 and FY24 only 9.6 and eps rising nicely from 29 cps this year to 31 cps and 33 cps in FY24.
https://www.marketscreener.com/quote...364/consensus/
I remain of the view the consumer staples are the best area of retail in the prevailing environment.
I think WHS advertising "Hey small spender" and then promoting a range of discounted grocery staples hits the nail on the head perfectly for the times we live in and is a very good plan to get more people into their stores.
And this one with their dividend history
1. How reliable have their dividends been ?
2. Have they proven they can pay good dividends right across the economic cycle ?
3. Is their dividend policy sustainable, i.e. are they paying out at a ratio that still enables the company to perform well ?
4. Are the dividends fully imputed ?
5. What is the gross yield ?
6. Is the gross yield sustainable going forward ?
7. Will dividends grow over time ?
WHS has the following dividend history, all fully imputed in calendar years
2021 35.5 cps
2020 10 cps (declared but subsequently withheld due to Covid concerns)
2019 17 cps
2018 16 cps
2017 16 cps
2016 16 cps
2015 16 cps
2014 19 cps
2013 21 cps
2012 20 cps
2011 22 cps
2010 30.5 cps
2009 31 cps
2008 21 cps
2007 52.5 cps includes 35 cps special
2006 16 cps
Total paid in 16 years $3.595 = 22.47 cps on average.
I could go back further if you like but I am sure you get the point that their dividends are reliable right across the business cycles even during the GFC. I think you can comfortably say WHS has an excellent track record as a high income stock. I also note their balance sheet is in excellent shape with $150m cash on hand and no debt so they are very well positioned going forward.
Average broker forecast for the next 3 years is
FY22 21 cps
FY23 23 cps
FY24 25 cps
Average over the next 3 years = 23 cps which is consistent with its 16 year average above noted at 22.47 cps.
Taking that average of 23 cps and accounting for imputation credits 23 / 0.72 = 31.94 cps which on a net investment of $3.20 ($3.30 less 10 cents back in a few weeks treated as part return of purchase price)
shows on average over the long run WHS is capable of paying you 31.94 / 320 = ~ 10% Gross Yield at a net $3.20 purchase price.
Probably a very good income stock is how I see it in a nutshell. Good that they have a nice strong balance sheet with no debt and plenty of cash on hand.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/alarm-bells-sound-worlds-second-largest-appliance-company-reports-demand-plunge
I wonder what this might mean for these guys or us...Noel Leeming might not have such great sales coming up? We might be able to bag a bargain on appliances? There might be a lack of choice/options in appliance shopping in the near future?
Quote from: arekaywhy on Sep 13, 2022, 08:29 AMhttps://www.zerohedge.com/markets/alarm-bells-sound-worlds-second-largest-appliance-company-reports-demand-plunge
I wonder what this might mean for these guys or us...Noel Leeming might not have such great sales coming up? We might be able to bag a bargain on appliances? There might be a lack of choice/options in appliance shopping in the near future?
Quite easy. Earnings will either go up, go down or stay the same.
As well - we used to have once in our live an Electrolux vacuum. Never again! I am surprised it took consumers that long to reduce their demand of Electrolux appliances ... and Warehouse isn't selling them (to the best of my knowledge) anyway.
Noel's does
I look at it more from the perspective of general market sentiment
These are significant purchases for the typical shopper
If there is a global slow down in whiteware, will there be a glut with continued production? Will there be a glut with factories shutting down, and thus a loss of choice for the consumer? Or will it mean nothing for our market as it is too hard to pack them back into a ship to send to other markets and they just sit on the shelves?
Quote from: arekaywhy on Sep 14, 2022, 06:23 AMNoel's does
I look at it more from the perspective of general market sentiment
These are significant purchases for the typical shopper
If there is a global slow down in whiteware, will there be a glut with continued production? Will there be a glut with factories shutting down, and thus a loss of choice for the consumer? Or will it mean nothing for our market as it is too hard to pack them back into a ship to send to other markets and they just sit on the shelves?
Yes :) ;
T.A. doesn't look too shabby on WHS...been in a reasonable uptrend for the last 6 months despite all the doom and gloom on the retail front. As mentioned last week I've recently been slowly accumulating at around $3.30 buying back some of the shares I sold to Nick late last year for ~ $4.10. Not sure how much more gas there is in the tank in the short run from the early $3.60's but I am happy to hold for dividend income given their superb track record over the long run noted in post # 21 above. If it dips back a bit I'd be happy to hound a few more up.
• Group online sales up 39.8% and making up 15.3% of total Group sales.
Positive.
Still room for growth from this channel.
Lower @adjusted' profit than I expected
H2 profit margin 2.4% of sales and likely indicator of future profitability (margins and costs under pressure).
Bit of a worry that after selling $3.3 billion of stuff they generated only $7m of cash - and then spent $107m on capex and paid $96m in dividends
The much touted cash mountain of $160m has turned into a pile of debt of $41m
Message to Nick - not a good year really and there's too many excuses and warm fuzzies in your presentation. Hope you realise F23 will be even more difficult and that instead of doing some of the 'awesome things' for the world you just get on and concentrate on making a decent profit.
Quote from: winner (n) on Sep 28, 2022, 09:31 AMLower @adjusted' profit than I expected
H2 profit margin 2.4% of sales and likely indicator of future profitability (margins and costs under pressure).
Bit of a worry that after selling $3.3 billion of stuff they generated only $7m of cash - and then spent $107m on capex and paid $96m in dividends
The much touted cash mountain of $160m has turned into a pile of debt of $41m
Message to Nick - not a good year really and there's too many excuses and warm fuzzies in your presentation. Hope you realise F23 will be even more difficult and that instead of doing some of the 'awesome things' for the world you just get on and concentrate on making a decent profit.
Hard to ignore that significant impact on the balance sheet. Sales down 3% but add in inflation at 7%+ and that's down 10% in real terms. I've sold and will ask questions later when I'm feeling better.
The other thing is currency is shaping up as a serious headwind for FY23, now under 56 cents and I doubt the SAAS charge of $12m odd is a one off so all reported future profits with be impacted by their SAAS costs. Going to be a tough year ahead for retail, really tough. Sold my small holding in HLG today too. The irony of WHS reporting on the day Costco opened its first store isn't lost on me.
Basil - always pays to keep track of the cash - here's WHS Free Cash Flow over the years
Coming big spenders .... lot of it on IT related stuff
And an analyst queried why they paid a dividend
000whscash.JPG
Big IT spend to sell cheap baked beans at a low margin.?..Yeah right..lol.
Quote from: lorraina on Sep 28, 2022, 07:48 PMBig IT spend to sell cheap baked beans at a low margin.?..Yeah right..lol.
Have a look at The Market.
Yes, they might sell as well cheap baked beans (https://themarket.com/nz/p/oak-baked-beans-420g/2-R857055?siq=2532c273-1033-4d93-90f2-ac31d14fe142&sii=2R857055&mode=io&s=baked%20beans),
but there is as well plenty of stuff to indulge:
like top end home electronics?
https://themarket.com/nz/p/samsung-galaxy-s22-ultra-5g-512gb-white/4-210609
a great e bike?
https://themarket.com/nz/p/the-new-v4-cruzer-power-dual-battery/5875-SQ4768586?siq=d91d926a-a1cb-43a0-93e6-f8584e0c59fa&sii=5875SQ4768586&mode=io&s=e%20bike
fashion?
https://themarket.com/nz/p/dolce-gabbana-bordeaux-crystal-ball-gown-full-dress/4782-NOC10134?siq=64e39f1f-c239-4381-8819-2588ead37538&sii=4782NOC10134&mode=io&s=ball
or something for the senses?
https://themarket.com/nz/p/boss-bottled-infinite-eau-de-parfum-spray-by-hugo-boss-200-ml-men/4782-FX548708?siq=e29e951e-7f1e-494c-b844-dabdbe940deb&sii=4782FX548708&mode=io&s=boss
while they get for some of this stuff only a 15% commission ... I suppose the margins overall might be quite satisfactory.
QuoteThe much touted cash mountain of $160m has turned into a pile of debt of $41m Winner
To me that was a run for the hills moment. Seeing their cash drained like that is pretty spectacular for all the wrong reasons and that's before they pay the dividend which is another $34.7m which probably gets added to the existing debt.
I think there's a very real risk Nick's obsession with 'the market" which is consistently burning ~ 20% of annual profit turns into a white elephant. Plenty of other online platforms and not many retailers want to pay the market 15% of their gross sales just for being on the platform when they can have their own digital sales channel. I suspect "the market" is conceptually flawed in a very small country like N.Z..
Like a lot of CEO's, if this huge gamble doesn't pay off, I doubt he will stick around to face the music.
So 1.6 million shares as a retention 'incentive' if you hang around for another 4 years and don't stuff things up too much in the process .... well done Nick
Suppose Joan thinks a good deal .. many wouldn't
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/401168/381916.pdf
Allow Nick a year to settle in when he started in 2016 - since then he has seen Group sales grow from $2.9 billion to $3.3 billion - about 3% pa ..... and profits (normalised) have gone from about $70m to just over $80m
Best achievement has been $80m is restructuring / consultants costs
Hope next 4 years is better - but Joan they must keep him on as they want to ensure his leadership through the next 4 years so the strategy that seems to have taken eons to develop can be implemented (successfully)
Maybe I'm just jealous
Test out T7 delivery for some gear in the lastest round of sales to ditch last years tech and delivery was next business day.
Quote from: winner (n) on Oct 26, 2022, 02:05 PMAllow Nick a year to settle in when he started in 2016 - since then he has seen Group sales grow from $2.9 billion to $3.3 billion - about 3% pa ..... and profits (normalised) have gone from about $70m to just over $80m
Best achievement has been $80m is restructuring / consultants costs
Hope next 4 years is better - but Joan they must keep him on as they want to ensure his leadership through the next 4 years so the strategy that seems to have taken eons to develop can be implemented (successfully)
Maybe I'm just jealous
Just keep throwing $25m a year at themarket.com, (gamble more than a quarter of the company's profit), what could possibly go wrong ;)
When our Nick started as CEO (nearly 7 years ag0) the WHS share price was $2.90 - now $3.09
Maybe a better performance over the next few years so he can cash in his 1.6 million shares at a great price
Must think so because he bought some off a poster on this site for $4.11 not that long ago
Good update.... holders should be happy
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/402187
• Group sales for the 13 weeks to 30 October 2022 ("FY23 Q1") were $764.7 million, up 21.2% compared to FY22 Q1 and up 12.3% compared to FY20 Q1 (being the last pre-COVID comparative period).
• Record first quarter sales at The Warehouse of $414.6 million, up 39.0% on FY22 Q1, as customers shopped for value with grocery sales up 76.2% and homeware sales up 32.2%.
Quote from: Left Field on Nov 11, 2022, 08:37 AMGood update.... holders should be happy
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/402187
• Group sales for the 13 weeks to 30 October 2022 ("FY23 Q1") were $764.7 million, up 21.2% compared to FY22 Q1 and up 12.3% compared to FY20 Q1 (being the last pre-COVID comparative period).
• Record first quarter sales at The Warehouse of $414.6 million, up 39.0% on FY22 Q1, as customers shopped for value with grocery sales up 76.2% and homeware sales up 32.2%.
Only up 21% on pcp
Just as well for the Red Sheds and to a certain extent Warehouse Stationary - Noel Leeming and Torpedo7 must be a bit of a worry.
On their own measures they have lost market share .... overall retail sales in NZ did better than this
And Gross Margin % down -- if that continues for the full year hurts bottom line by $20m v F22
Savvy investors will recall that all of the wider Auckland region was in lockdown for the vast majority of Q1 FY22. 1.7 million people locked up for 107 days.
To really get a clean comparison one needs to go back to the last Q1 result that was undisturbed by Covid, Q1 FY19 in which group sales were $694.8M. Sales are up 10.06% in the last 3 years in nominal terms or approximately unchanged in inflation adjusted terms.
"Satisfactory" is how I would describe today's announcement. Good progress on store within a store in the last year. Dividend hounds should be satisfied that the likelihood of 20 cps fully imputed being maintained going forward just got a little bit better.
Disc: No holding.
Taking one quarter a few years ago and doing quarterly comparisons as the base isn't particularly good practice.
Looking at segment growth since October 2019 (pre Covid) - 3 year annual growth has been
Red Sheds 2.4% pa
Stationery -1.4% pa
Noel Leemings 5.5% pa
Torpedo7 5.8% pa
I wouldn't call that good - esp when other NZ retailers have done better than this on same measure (Michael Hill and Kathmandu excluded)
But the market thinks the sales were great and share price up 5%
Must have overlooked the margin decline bit
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 11, 2022, 10:44 AMTaking one quarter a few years ago and doing quarterly comparisons as the base isn't particularly good practice.
Looking at segment growth since October 2019 (pre Covid) - 3 year annual growth has been
Red Sheds 2.4% pa
Stationery -1.4% pa
Noel Leemings 5.5% pa
Torpedo7 5.8% pa
I wouldn't call that good - esp when other NZ retailers have done better than this on same measure (Michael Hill and Kathmandu excluded)
Fair enough mate I only did a real quick comparison on gross sales. As usual you're on the ball very quickly whereas fat Beagle still needs his second coffee ;)
Current gross yield (if its sustainable), is just on 9% based on them paying 20 cps fully imputed = 27.78 cps gross. On the face of its that's acceptable for dividend hounds but the question in my mind with inflation where it is revolves around whether they can maintain the dividend going forward in inflation adjusted terms ?
Noel Leeming sales growth over the years quite interesting
Lockdowns good for them --- maybe when all the computer gear and TVs bought during lockdown will need to be replaced soon to give sales another boost. That be good for them
On the other hand might just revert to lowish growth as seen pre-covid.
But it seems JB HiFi doing better at the moment
000nl.JPG
I have a Samsung 55-inch T.V. Had it for ~ 10 years and still going strong with a very clear picture. I doubt much of the stuff bought during lockdown recently will need replacing for a while but maybe stuff isn;t built as well these days ? Time will tell.
Groceries sales up a lot. I knew all my cheap milk purchases at WHS would show up somewhere...wonder what their margin is on $3 for 2 liters of milk ?
Very little.,.
Big day on NZX but WHS hardly moved after a sales update
Suppose one could assume market not that impressed with update.
For a laugh joined WHS ASM
Jeez Nick is so boring .... doesn't want to be there methinks
Taking ages to get to question time.
Can't help notice it closed very close to a new low for the year at $2.90
My morbid fascination with no growth cyclical companies sees me wondering if this goes back to test its support level of $2 a few years ago ?
Might be worth a punt if it does.
Crikey! A sneaky downgrade released late afternoon 29/12/22
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/404808
FY23 sales for the Q2 period to 26 December 2022 by brand:
• The Warehouse sales were down 1.3% compared to the same period last year
• Warehouse Stationery sales were down 9.2% compared to the same period last year
• Noel Leeming sales were down 11.8% compared to the same period last year
• Torpedo7 sales were down 8.5% compared to the same period last year
Year to date Group sales in FY23 were $1,506m compared to $1,414m in the same period in FY22, an increase of 6.4%.
Group gross profit margin for the FY23 Q2 period to date was down approximately 300 basis points compared to the same period in FY22. Year to date Group gross profit margin in FY23 is down approximately 200 basis points on the same period in FY22.
And what's this about "down 300 basis points....etc" ?? Give me the % for xxx sake. Anyways, glad I don't hold.
Profit for H1 to be down about 40% ....ouch
Hard to imagine H2 being any better
Bit of a disaster this update
And our man Nick just got zillions to say on for another few years ...I'd say he lucky to keep his job.
WHS could be back on Basil's watch list pretty soon
Aituā! So "purposeful investment in the Group's MarketClub membership programme" is highlighted as a key expense. They reckon they have 900,000 "active members" (whatever 'active' might actually mean?) Yet it's hard to see where they will gain profitability from this particular venture? How many sales are they getting out of each of these members? I guess it's all commercially sensitive information but at some point they need to produce numbers that prove this is not just an expensive folly (which is what my bet is on it being.)
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 29, 2022, 06:43 PMProfit for H1 to be down about 40% ....ouch
Hard to imagine H2 being any better
Bit of a disaster this update
And our man Nick just got zillions to say on for another few years ...I'd say he lucky to keep his job.
Looks like a bit of a disaster to me. Noel Leeming sales tanking, sales down in the last 2 months but not down so much because they are held up a bit by low margin grocery but it's all okay because we now have 900,000 active users on our market platform. ::)
It's long overdue for Nick to give up on his fantasy for creating a mini N.Z. version of Amazon that's costing shareholders ~ $25m per annum.
I think this deserves to go back to $2 where it came from.
Quote from: Perky on Sep 09, 2022, 02:20 PMYes well I think the Whs should be doing super well every year...
I think they could be ordinary this year..weighed down by noels coming off Covid tailwinds, torpedo 7 will be so so and red sheds will have sold a lot of milk, flour and butter which kept customers happy but shareholders poor as the selling price of these items is unsustainable. The grocery experiment will end in a whimper and they will go in search of the next category nirvana after they already exited finance,jewelry, Whs xtra, alcohol, Australia...silly solly etc. The market will still be selling heaps but costing heaps to run selling other businesses products.
By jiggery pokery of group numbers the dividend will still be paid
Maybe when the economy slows a bit more the red shed will go better. Not enough pain yet
I could be also be horribly wrong so GLH
Even though I'm not a holder it's an interesting company to follow with its diversity of product mix and sales channels that aren't always closely related in performance ie when Noel's goes well whs probably not and vice versa..when they get all bits going north ...that's the year
I'm not totally surprised as per my post above in September. I think the Whs has a real conundrum on what they are going to be in grocery. At the moment they only offer a very tight range of goods so people can't do a full grocery shop at Whs ie no fresh , frozen, meat etc. In my real world I go past a Whs to go to supermarket. I'm spending some money with the Whs on groceries which I previously wasn't...but I only buy the items that are cheaper than supermarket ie milk, butter, flour and I take advantage of their special offers. I don't know what their buy prices are but some of their bundled offers are ridiculously good value for customers and probably contribute no profit to shareholders...here's a few example from my Whs app on purchases made with a guesstimate on ave supermarket price.
40 Starbucks capsules Whs $16.78 supermarket $28
4 twin packs griffins gingernuts Whs $7.90. Supermarket $18
Honey Whs $3. Supermarket $5
Milk Whs $3. Supermarket $4
Flour Whs $1. Supermarket $2.40
On top of this I regularly get $5 or $10 off on spend levels with Whs app or market place
No wonder theres margin pressure on grocery.
Every week the supermarkets have loss leaders as they know once you get there you grab a big trolley and fill it with other items and spend a high weekly ave amount. I've never used a trolley or even a basket for my shopping at Whs grocery. I wonder if lots of other people shop similar. Sales revenue is one thing but margin and profit are more important imho.
So the Whs is getting me in store which is good. I'm spending some money there but average purchase would be around $10/week...that is bad. I haven't bought any other category outside of grocery...that is very bad. I still do 95% go grocery shopping at other stores...this is bad.
There giving a lot of pricing margin away to me and getting diddly squat back from me in revenue
If you were poor ole Nick head of Whs...what would you do to get this place humming?
So H123 sales going to be about $110m than H122
But after all that effort they make $20m less after tax ...$26m before tax.
Increased sales impact $38m additional margin all gone from reduced margin %. That much improved margin they gloated about over last couple of years all gone.
And then costs up say $25m
Npat will be about $30m ...not much eh
Reduced margins and increasing costs not a good combo
Profit margin below 2% of sales
Back to the good old days of being a low margin retailer .....hardly a surprise
Reducing margins and increasing costs not a good combination
Mr Winner, you told me once you used to work on Whs business in your professional capacity. You know this business very very well...probably better than some of management
Today you are Nick.
The board has called you urgently back to Birkenhead from nicks holiday Bach in Omaha
In 25 words or less...what's going wrong and how you going to fix it?
Discl. Not a holder but might buy some one day.
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 29, 2022, 06:43 PMProfit for H1 to be down about 40% ....ouch
But Winner, WHS say Gross Profit margin only "down approximately 200 - 300 Basis Points"....... so all is well. :o
Who are they trying to fool?
Quote from: Perky on Dec 30, 2022, 09:01 AMMr Winner, you told me once you used to work on Whs business in your professional capacity. You know this business very very well...probably better than some of management
Today you are Nick.
The board has called you urgently back to Birkenhead from nicks holiday Bach in Omaha
In 25 words or less...what's going wrong and how you going to fix it?
Discl. Not a holder but might buy some one day.
Nick just sent text to Joan
Hi Joan, the ebike I got from T7 has just stopped working so can't make it today and my mobile isn't working that well. Talk in New Year sometime.
It may not require rocket science...they could just look down the road to K-mart for inspiration.
The rise of Kmart
Kmart's success story started when it attempted to differentiate itself from other mid-market businesses (e.g. Big W and Target) by price through its quarterly sales. Although this promotion encouraged greater spending from customers, it conditioned consumers to delay large purchases until sales occurred. As a result, Kmart switched to the "everyday low prices" (EDLP) model we see today, selling a small range of products at cheap prices, appealing to price conscious customers who desire value for products.
Furthermore, continual market research conducted by Kmart, taking inspiration from international designers and feedback from fans and influencers, allows it to stay on top of consumer trends, putting it ahead of slower competitors.
Another factor contributing to Kmart's success is its comfortable in-store experience; its cleaner and wider aisles and absence of bargain bins contrasts that of Target, which places low-cost items next to higher-priced celebrity and designer collaboration products with bins of miscellaneous products scattered around the store, making it less appealing and attractive for customers. https://www.smsusyd.com/post/a-tale-of-two-retail-chains-marketing-under-the-microscope-5
https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/how-kmart-became-the-cool-mum-of-australia-s-discount-retailers-20200207-p53yn1.html
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 30, 2022, 10:22 AMNick just sent text to Joan
Hi Joan, the ebike I got from T7 has just stopped working so can't make it today and my mobile isn't working that well. Talk in New Year sometime.
Joan to Nick,
This is the last time I fly back from Pauanui to market disclose our poor performance. Shut the market, stop discounting and giving margin away..or Nick..you'll be on your bike alright son...
Love Joan of Ark
Nick sent another text to Joan 'Record first half sales Joan. what's the problem'
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 29, 2022, 08:04 PMWHS could be back on Basil's watch list pretty soon
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Basil sold his shares to Nick not that long ago - Nick paid $4.11 for them
They say insider buying is a good sign. Even the CFO was buying about the same time
Suppose Nick not worried that those shares are now $2.60 - used to saying everybody gets a bargain
NZX site says at the $2.59 current price the
Gross Div Yield 9.921%
Must be on every dividend hounds watchlist as it is well over 8% gross?
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 30, 2022, 11:36 AMNick sent another text to Joan 'Record first half sales Joan. what's the problem'
Well Nick, the problem is where selling lots more and making much less.
phyla sophicallee we should be trying to sell less and make more or sell more and make more.
That's why we employ you Nick
Joan
ps are your sure you can't come to the office for a spanking...your phone seems to be working now. Maybe you can paddle board from Omaha to takapuna and we will get your pa to pick you up
Quote from: Crackity on Dec 30, 2022, 11:48 AMNZX site says at the $2.59 current price the
Gross Div Yield 9.921%
Must be on every dividend hounds watchlist as it is well over 8% gross?
Is the current annual 20 cps dividend sustainable? That's the $64,000 question.
Quote from: Crackity on Dec 30, 2022, 11:48 AMNZX site says at the $2.59 current price the
Gross Div Yield 9.921%
Must be on every dividend hounds watchlist as it is well over 8% gross?
Yup...galloping to catch up with My Food Bag's 17.50%. Surely both are divy hunters dreams, eh.
Apparently Nick has authorised these billboards as he departs for his annual beach holiday.
He was not prepared to take any calls from share analysts or angry stocktalk members on their latest company performance and would prefer Joan to just own it!!
Happy New year all...especially like to thank Mr Winner for sharing his knowledge and experience and his wealth of posts this year.
In some ways a puzzling announcement. A $20-27m increase in COBD (and depreciation) which "largely reflects the investment in core systems and digital platforms the Group is currently undertaking". So a massive blowout in costs for stuff they knew about and are controlling themselves. You cannot predict wild NZD swings, global supply chain crises etc. but investment in your IT platforms should not come as a surprise... Also no commentary on the payback of this investment, and timeframe for completion of the programme, so who knows what is coming down the line with all of the other known challenges (fx, inventory, channel mix etc.)
Maintaining a 20c dividend would seem to be a forlorn hope, it would require NPAT of circa $100m based on 70% of NPAT. Which they have only achieved once the last 6 years, a period over which they have averaged $67m. Assuming a reversion to the mean return of 2% on sales would produce profit of $65-70m (and dividends of 13-14cps), but they have to weather the current storm first.
Time to jettison ballast like The Market perhaps? Grocery still has potential, they just need to go about it intelligently and in controlled stages.
1st quarter sales up 21.2% on pcp
YTD sales to December up 6.4% on pcp
If momentum continues through January wonder what 1st half sales growth will look like
They obviously think it's going to be a +ve number because gross profit $s going to be about the same when gp% downbeat couple of % points
I reckon FY NPAT will be about $65m ...about 18 cents / share
So share price $2.60 looks expensive
Of course could be wrong as they could 'adjust' numbers by quite a lot ...could even count the increased cost of all this IT stuff as abnormal and 'adjust' accordingly.
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 30, 2022, 11:40 AMBasil sold his shares to Nick not that long ago - Nick paid $4.11 for them
They say insider buying is a good sign. Even the CFO was buying about the same time
Suppose Nick not worried that those shares are now $2.60 - used to saying everybody gets a bargain
Moral of the story is don't blindly follow insiders, they're often buried so deep inside the company they can't see the wood for the trees. Better to use insider buying as confirmation with supporting fundamental and technical analysis and if FA and TA don't support the insider buying, ignore it.
The big question on my mind now with these, (that BTW have never left my watchlist), is what are they worth now and what level of dividend is sustainable?
As a corollary to that question, if I can work out the answer and I'm not sure I can at this point, is there any benefit to me owning some of these again assuming they did reach what my gut tells me (a little under $2) is a pretty good reentry point, in terms of some diversification from HLG or should I just get even more HLG instead?
I guess the nub of the issue is its clear to me now that WHS is a no growth company and that's never ever going to change. K Mart and Costco's expansion are going to keep nibbling away at market share and the previous darling of the group (Noel Leeming) appears to be set for quite a protracted period of slower sales as most people are well and truly done with nesting expenditure and that Freezer / TV / whatever, they bought for the lockdown isn't going to need replacing for many years. In terms of the retail sector, I think WHS is going to be an underperformer in 2023 and it's really hard to see what's going to break WHS out of its current downtrend so I think I will stay away for the foreseeable future.
Just a real quick estimate. If they can do $80m this year and I am not sure they can so maybe best to go with $75m, based on the latter figure that's only 21.6 cps. With the 10 year risk free rate at 4.5% now we can't use a no growth PE of 8.5 anymore we have to use 8 under Ben Graham's formula so 8 x 21.6 cps =
indicative value $1.73. 70% of 21.6 cps = ~15 cps in annual dividends fully imputed = 20.83 cps gross so my really quick and early estimate for gross yield this year at $2.60 is 20.83 / 260 = 8%. Yes it meets my 8% criteria,
but I think the chances of the share price deteriorating considerably from $2.60 in 2023 are very high.
Cashflow in F23 could be a bit sad
They've already said $135m of capex planned .......hmmm
That's a LOT of money to just "stay in business" eh! Thanks for that reminder, they'll just add most of that and the dividends they pay to their growing debt level's. Next year's balance sheet is going to be a far cry from the days of $160m cash on hand eh. Its all no worries though because by then they might have 950,000 active users of the market.com so all that extra capex is fully justified 😉
~ $25m a year spent on Nick's N.Z. version Amazon fantasy...why bother with WHS when the CEO is so busy shooting shareholders in the foot every year!
I think you've just helped me answer the second part of my question in paragraph 2 above. Cheers mate. 👍
Quote from: Basil on Dec 31, 2022, 12:12 PMThat's a LOT of money to just "stay in business" eh! Thanks for that reminder, they'll just add most of that and the dividends they pay to their growing debt level's. Next year's balance sheet is going to be a far cry from the days of $160m cash on hand eh. Its all no worries though because by then they might have 950,000 active users of the market.com so all that extra capex is fully justified 😉
~ $25m a year spent on Nick's N.Z. version Amazon fantasy...why bother with WHS when the CEO is so busy shooting shareholders in the foot every year!
I think you've just helped me answer the second part of my question in paragraph 2 above. Cheers mate. 👍
I'd say that dividends will revert to pre-covid leves ........and that a steady 16/17 cents is all punters will get if things go OK
What if things don't go okay ?
NL and T7 just finding it hard meters against the oppo?
So after spending the best part of $100m on restructuring/consultancy/Agile etc etc and investing goodness knows how much in IT the WHS business model metrics are much the same as they were 5 to 10 years ago.
Yes... not much in way of growth, GP% in low 30s resulting in a npat margin not much above 2% ...it's still a high volume low margin business capable of making $60m/$70m a year with little hope of doing better than that
Suppose Nick would say that if wasn't for the ecosystem he's built that adds value to customers WHS might not exist today ...I'd disagree
I would hazard a guess (not a prediction) the story might be different in 5 years time but they will be making $60m/$70m in a good year
Só I suppose one values it on that basis
WHS was 40 years old in N.Z. in November 2022.
It's hard to form any other impression of the brand than its very, very old and very mature.
Probably reached the point of market saturation 2 decades ago when it was at its peak in mid 2002 @ $7.40
Basically, it's been all downhill since then.
Long term share price chart is a decent reflection of how WHS has performed (as a company) this century
10832982-73F7-479D-9658-98E8EFFACE80.jpeg
Sold my Whs in early October after an indifferent report.
Under $2 sure a nice no growth dividend stock.
The last 2.5 years I've been comparing WHS to Myer as their sales are quite similar but Myr's market cap has been far lower.
Myr's sp has doubled while Whs has gone no where.
It really comes down to management, as usual and Myr's is good, not sure about WHS.
Double tax on dividends of course makes Myr unattractive for Kiwi taxpayers.
It was possible to buy 0.1% of Myr for between 80k and 160k in 2020!
Plus you would have effectively 50 employees to your account. I don't know if that's good or bad lol.
Dividends were discontinued for a few years but have restarted 8% net, 5c per share.
I made it into The Warehouse for the first time in ages today - I had to buy some plants for project (and my home sown were too far off flowering.) Whew, it was an insipid shopping experience. The garden section was poorly stocked, much more expensive than nearby Bunnings and many of the plants were in a poor condition. Throughout the store whole aisles were carrying barely any stock. Especially off was how even stock for the season- like sport and fitness gear, pool toys and fishing items - were practically bare. The much touted grocery section was a joke. Unsurprisingly, there were very few people in store, and fewer still who were buying more than a few cheap items. Stores like Bunnings, Mitre 10 and K-Mart are eating these guys lunch for them.
Funny you say that I had to go down there this evening for a basic first aid kit that I checked online was available at my local store but the smallish kit I really wanted wasn't actually available in stock at all. I found the same shambles you refer too. Ailes with hardly any stock, what there was available was often in a state of disarray. The women's cosmetics section was a complete mess and almost bare. Do you think I could find a staff member to help me...NO ! I would be embarrassed / ashamed if I was still a shareholder. I think it's obvious their software and stocking systems are an absolute shambles.
On the other hand my other most recent retail foray was buying some Glassons vouchers for the ladies in my life. Local store was immaculately presented, stock presented in a very orderly, neat and tidy manner and the store manager was lovely young lady who was very professional and friendly. As different as chalk and cheese those two retail experiences.
Quote from: Basil on Dec 31, 2022, 09:39 PMFunny you say that I had to go down there this evening for a basic first aid kit that I checked online was available at my local store but the smallish kit I really wanted wasn't actually available in stock at all. I found the same shambles you refer too. Ailes with hardly any stock, what there was available was often in a state of disarray. The women's cosmetics section was a complete mess and almost bare. Do you think I could find a staff member to help me...NO ! I would be embarrassed / ashamed if I was still a shareholder. I think it's obvious their software and stocking systems are an absolute shambles.
On the other hand my other most recent retail foray was buying some Glassons vouchers for the ladies in my life. Local store was immaculately presented, stock presented in a very orderly, neat and tidy manner and the store manager was lovely young lady who was very professional and friendly. As different as chalk and cheese those two retail experiences.
Very brave of you to even enter the twilight zone of the women's cosmetic section ;)
Basil your ' I think it's obvious their software and stocking systems are an absolute shambles.' comment made me wonder if local Noel Leeming store ever found the TV we wanted when the sales assistant when looking it up on the records said no problem there's two out the back .......and came back looking worried saying they not there.
Took the display model with a couple hundred off.
About 15 years ago all hell broke loose and WHS share price collapsed when they came out and said they couldn't find tens of million of stock the computer system said they had and had to write it off. That stuffed that years profit (probably was an 'adjustment' lol). Seems things haven't changed even though spent zillions on IT systems
Joke from years ago
Going from a Warehouse store to a Briscoes store is like going from Steptoe and Sons to Harrods
Wonder how WHS investment in Zoom Pharmacy is going ...... moved them into the ecology and zoom customers buying zillions through The Market?
Winner posted this back in 2004 -
QuoteAmazing that WHS price is still the same as it was 5 years ago
Imagine some poor fella called Sid who went bush for 5 years in November 1999 happy that his WHS shares were $3.80 and came out today and found they were still about $3.80.
Sid asked his sharebroker what has happened to the WHS over the last 5 years - his sharebroker told him
**** Store numbers have increased from 87 to 351
**** Sales are nearly 2 1/2 times what they were - increased from $0.9 billion to $2.2 billion
**** Net assets have more than doubled - from $170M to $357M
**** Now have 15,877 empoyees - 10.262 more than 5 years ago
**** Spent $500M on capital expenditure
So Sid replies 'Thats impressive, they must be making heaps now'
Oh no his sharebroker told Sid - their profit has only increased from $54M to $61M in those five years ... and the earnings per share has gone from 19cents to 20 cents.
Poor Sid - he's incredulous. All that investment and all those extra staff and they are only making the same as they were 5 years ago.
Who does he blame? He can't blame investor sentiment because WHS is still trading at 20X earnings - it hasn't been rerated downward. Sid says to himself that is just as well as if they had been rerated down they might have only been worth $2-$3. At least he still has his capital and he has had a few piddly dividends put in his bank account but inflation has taken care of those.
Sid asks his sharebroker 'Have the WHS really stuffed up somewhere along the way?'
Sid's sharebroker tells him 'No not really. They are investing for the future and all should be right in few years and your WHS shares should be worth $10 each in 5 years'
Sid thinks thats good and decides going bush for another 5 years might be the caper
What will Sid's sharebroker tell Sid when he comes back to civilisation in 5 years time?
And followed it up a few months later -
Sid's brother died and Sid came out of the bush for the funeral. While at the funeral he asked his sharebroker how his WHS shares were going ... must be heading back to $10 by now he asked.
No the sharebroker told Sid .. they are actually worth about 20% less than when you came out of the bush last November
But don't fret said the sharebroker. They are changing the way they do business in NZ, going to go into groceries and think that Woolworths coming into NZ could be good for everybody. The shareprice will go back up to the old heights of old ... it just keep keep going down down down ....
And Sid has gone back to the bush happy as Larry his nest egg is going to grow ....
All this time later...and all that capex and all that so called growth and investment in systems and what's changed? Just as well with Nick's obsession with all things omnichannel it's going to be different going forward eh ;)
Funnily enough in the same vein as Winners story I was cruising up the harbour the other day and the thought came to me, what is the one share I would be most happy to own if the market was shut for the next 10 years ? The answer came to me in a flash, it was so obvious. You guys figure it out, I've posted a lot about it lately. Hint, it's not the WHS lol
" civilisation "
well there is a new concert venue being built in Hamilton.....
some time in the years ahead an orchestra will apparently be able to perform a concert in the WAKA TOO.....
Gosh amazing...
WHS not so amazing.... but then again bringing all those tech platforms together along with developing the MARKET is a big job...
maybe to big...
Noel Leeming stuff is just getting too ridiculously expensive to buy. Went in to look at the new Samsung phones, but the idea of paying $3000 for a phone, that will only last 4-5 years, was too much to stomach. Same for the Apple products. And a new Dyson vacuum is now $1500!
I bought a freezer from Trade Depot last year. Great service, fast delivery, cheap price. I predict big things for them.
Quote from: KW on Jan 01, 2023, 11:56 AMNoel Leeming stuff is just getting too ridiculously expensive to buy. Went in to look at the new Samsung phones, but the idea of paying $3000 for a phone, that will only last 4-5 years, was too much to stomach. Same for the Apple products. And a new Dyson vacuum is now $1500!
I bought a freezer from Trade Depot last year. Great service, fast delivery, cheap price. I predict big things for them.
Buy one get one free. Best to order your cordless Dyson online with Noel Leeming on sale like my friend did a while back. A few days later it arrived and then a few days later another one arrived from a different branch. Neither branch ever put their hand up for one of them back lol
WOW!!!!!!!
now thats a tech platform ...
.. have a great day out there folks and sunscreen up...
evenings till nearly 9 PM...
Poor Nick has a real dilema on his hands.
Change gets costlier every day; yet not changing can be costlier still.
And even while adapting to change, his marketing effort must reflect purpose of ' Helping Kiwis live better every day' and being consistent with the bargain image.
Hope Nick has great 2023 ........ all the best
Quote from: winner (n) on Jan 03, 2023, 08:20 AMPoor Nick has a real dilema on his hands.
Change gets costlier every day; yet not changing can be costlier still.
And even while adapting to change, his marketing effort must reflect purpose of ' Helping Kiwis live better every day' and being consistent with the bargain image.
Hope Nick has great 2023 ........ all the best
Poor, not so much. He's a "high level talent" (according to Chair, Joan Withers) and that's why he garners annual remuneration of over NZ$2m and other 'incentives.' He got a "long-term incentive payment" (whatever that is?) of $1.3m just over a year ago. A handful of other staff on the $1m plus salaries too. WHS look management top heavy. Lotsa chiefs, eh. Yet on the store floor you can't find a staff member for help and they have very limited shelf stocking teams. It's time for Nick to earn his pay.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jan 03, 2023, 09:07 AMPoor, not so much. He's a "high level talent" (according to Chair, Joan Withers) and that's why he garners annual remuneration of over NZ$2m and other 'incentives.' He got a "long-term incentive payment" (whatever that is?) of $1.3m just over a year ago. A handful of other staff on the $1m plus salaries too. WHS look management top heavy. Lotsa chiefs, eh. Yet on the store floor you can't find a staff member for help and they have very limited shelf stocking teams. It's time for Nick to earn his pay.
F22 remuneration was $3,565,000
Up to a couple of years ago they disclosed the CEO remuneration of the CEO as a multiple of the median wage of all employees (FTE basis)
Don't do it know ....must be too embarrassing
Shouldn't worry ....Nick has a very important and stressful job.
Quote from: winner (n) on Jan 03, 2023, 09:25 AMF22 remuneration was $3,565,000
Up to a couple of years ago they disclosed the CEO remuneration of the CEO as a multiple of the median wage of all employees (FTE basis)
Don't do it know ....must be too embarrassing
Shouldn't worry ....Nick has a very important and stressful job.
He was appointed back in January, 2016.
That's 7 years in the seat. Previously, "At Sears, Nick was responsible for leading change from traditional retail into omnichannel and integrated retail, building profitable businesses, driving operational turnarounds, changing business models and leading high-performance teams" according to his profile. I guess you could say he's given the first of these a nudge at WHS. The other five remain underwhelming or not achieved. Seems like Sears got better outcomes from Nick.
He will no doubt liken it to flogging a "dead horse"....
over paid by a lot .....
glad we dumped them .... still T7 is a source of outdoor stuff for many and will LIMP along in the race.
Note that the Garmin 5 F provides better data than the G6 which has a lot more functionality.
However the RTOS has a lot more to measure on its timer interval and therefore the G5 actually has more data on its data points as it measure less...
Less is therefore MORE!!!
T7 is a quick stop off to get your Glasses and measuring devices as you KIT UP.
There is a new ish platform for measuring and getting data in the US with a Portable junction box for up to 10 accelerometers.
This stuff hasnt got to NZ yet but in the US and Europe this new platform has over 11G registered developers.
In short NZ is a small country that if it doesnt get its ACT together will be left behind..
The Market needs to perform and SOON.
His salary is glaring inconsistent with what the company makes each year.
When someone is paid that much they should have an extremely broad skillset and there should be no need for paying consultants tens of millions.
How can someone paid that much be so delusional to think he can build a profitable version of a mini Amazon in N.Z. ?
Actually - I like the market (as a customer) which some posters here love to beat up so much. Saved me already lots of trips into town and delivery (for members and if you order for more than $50) is free.
Most stuff we order from local shops in the Warehouse group arrives already the next morning at our place - and even the stuff which comes from Australia or the UK or India is faster (and much cheaper) than it would be with (e.g.) amazon. If there are any issues with an overseas trader, than the market tracks the orders without prompting and resolves things (and so far they did well).
Great stuff.
True - I don't know, whether this all just contributes to increasing the Markets losses - ... but then - if customers like a service you can normally make as well money with it - after some initial investment and ramp up time.
YES BP agree and KIT has turned up by delivery order via T7...
not saying one doesnt use it.
But the salary is far to high and not linked to Group Profit...
maybe cut the salary in half and award shares options....
to the team not just him....
Quote from: Basil on Jan 03, 2023, 10:51 AMHis salary is glaring inconsistent with what the company makes each year.
When someone is paid that much they should have an extremely broad skillset and there should be no need for paying consultants tens of millions.
How can someone paid that much be so delusional to think he can build a profitable version of a mini Amazon in N.Z. ?
No comments on his salary ... and I don't know either whether the market experiment will end up to be financially successful.
However - it is do-able. Remember how TradeMe used to eat eBay's lunch here in NZ?
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jan 03, 2023, 11:40 AMNo comments on his salary ... and I don't know either whether the market experiment will end up to be financially successful.
However - it is do-able. Remember how TradeMe used to eat eBay's lunch here in NZ?
"Used to" being the key words here, BP. Remember too all the me-too Trademe sites that came...and went. The concept of Market is too late. The case for an aggregator site in 2023 is just not compelling.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jan 03, 2023, 11:55 AM"Used to" being the key words here, BP. Remember too all the me-too Trademe sites that came...and went. The concept of Market is too late. The case for an aggregator site in 2023 is just not compelling.
Maybe. Maybe not. I am sure hindsight will tell, but how would you know in advance?
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jan 03, 2023, 12:55 PMMaybe. Maybe not. I am sure hindsight will tell, but how would you know in advance?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/585258/historical-divination-methods-predict-future
or there's analysis and hopefully an increased probability of the outcome matching your expectation. Whichever floats your boat ;)
Most vendors on TheMarket outside of the WHS brands offer products of very dubious quality and also outsized prices. Drop shipping type rubbish.
95% of the time I order from the WHS or NL, with a discount code of some sort (TheMarket has them running almost 24/7) and with free shipping via a Vodafone deal (another cost). Margins must be very thin?
You can also tell, by the way other vendors price their items, they do not take TheMarket especially seriously as a sales venue. They're not sharp at all. I've also had many orders from such vendors cancelled because they just don't bother to ship the items.
Plus, we've already seen numerous aggregators fail in New Zealand, for whatever reason.
PlusPlus, no one seems to even know about TheMarket. I only know because I am a bit of a techy/deal hunter. But most others - I think not. Where is the marketing of TheMarket?
Suffice to say I think it's a massive waste of time and money. Reminds me of a much better funded (and more costly to operate in terms of the owner creating massive losses of themselves) version of https://www.fishpond.co.nz/.
Heard this story from a friend of a friend today -
How nuts is it that my local Noel Leeming store has the product I want but can't sell to me because their stock is allocated to customers in other regions and waiting for outbound courier and I have to wait for a unit to be delivered from outside of region on inbound courier.
Quote from: entrep on Jan 03, 2023, 05:15 PMMost vendors on TheMarket outside of the WHS brands offer products of very dubious quality and also outsized prices. Drop shipping type rubbish.
Do you have any data to support this statement, or did you just make that up?
While I have seen as well some outrageously priced stuff on the market (which I didn't buy - i.e. I can't assess the quality), I bought already a lot of "non-warehouse stuff" of good quality and to quite reasonable prices on the market. Your statement is clearly not generally true.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jan 03, 2023, 05:23 PMDo you have any data to support this statement, or did you just make that up?
What do you think? I wrote a post on a forum talking about my experience. Not sure how you thought any aspect of it was scientific.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jan 03, 2023, 05:23 PMWhile I have seen as well some outrageously priced stuff on the market (which I didn't buy - i.e. I can't assess the quality), I bought already a lot of "non-warehouse stuff" of good quality and to quite reasonable prices on the market. Your statement is clearly not generally true.
Did you make this up too?
Quote from: entrep on Jan 03, 2023, 05:26 PMWhat do you think? I wrote a post on a forum talking about my experience. Not sure how you thought any aspect of it was scientific.
Did you make this up too?
Here's two Web reviews, typically the complaints are about slow and / or drop shipping, product problems and poor service. However; there are all manner of other gripes and grumbles too.
https://pricespy.co.nz/store.php?f=38504 at
1.4 "Bad" (43 of 53 reviews rate their experience as, "bad."
https://pricespy.co.nz/store.php?f=38504 at
3.6 "Average" (841 reviews, 31% = 1 star, 45% = 5 stars)
So, somewhere between 'bad' and 'average' then. I'm having flashbacks to old school reports... Usually ending with a comment about, "needing to do better."
Might waddle along and get some more tee shirts today. One thing they do quite well that many other retailers don't is larger size basic summer wear for big guys. Good they do something right lol
Quote from: entrep on Jan 03, 2023, 05:15 PMMost vendors on TheMarket outside of the WHS brands offer products of very dubious quality and also outsized prices. Drop shipping type rubbish.
95% of the time I order from the WHS or NL, with a discount code of some sort (TheMarket has them running almost 24/7) and with free shipping via a Vodafone deal (another cost). Margins must be very thin?
You can also tell, by the way other vendors price their items, they do not take TheMarket especially seriously as a sales venue. They're not sharp at all. I've also had many orders from such vendors cancelled because they just don't bother to ship the items.
Plus, we've already seen numerous aggregators fail in New Zealand, for whatever reason.
PlusPlus, no one seems to even know about TheMarket. I only know because I am a bit of a techy/deal hunter. But most others - I think not. Where is the marketing of TheMarket?
Suffice to say I think it's a massive waste of time and money. Reminds me of a much better funded (and more costly to operate in terms of the owner creating massive losses of themselves) version of https://www.fishpond.co.nz/.
Quote from: entrep on Jan 03, 2023, 05:26 PMWhat do you think? I wrote a post on a forum talking about my experience. Not sure how you thought any aspect of it was scientific.
Did you make this up too?
Please accept my apologies - but I am still struggling to understand the information you provided.
You said "Most vendors on TheMarket outside of the WHS brands offer products of very dubious quality"
To make this claim you clearly either must have sampled the majority of all vendors on the market or you must have access to third party data supporting your claim. How else could you know that most vendors on the market offer products of very dubious quality?
Just help us here - how many vendors are there on the market, and of how many of them did you sample the quality of the products so that you know they are dubious?
You stated: "95% of the time I order from the WHS or NL, with a discount code of some sort (TheMarket has them running almost 24/7) and with free shipping via a Vodafone deal (another cost). Margins must be very thin?"
95% of the time you order from the WHS or NL? To achieve this percentage you must have ordered at least 20 times (or a multiple thereof) from them ...
This is a lot. Great to hear from a loyal Warehouse and NL customer - which means you absolutely must love their quality and prices, it is just the market you are unhappy with. Right?
You said "I've also had many orders from such vendors cancelled because they just don't bother to ship the items" Wow. You say that most non WHS or NL vendors offer products of dubious quality, and you say as well that you had many of your orders from them cancelled. You don't specify "many" but in common English this is typically the majority of a number close to 10 or above.
So you are saying you ordered at least something like 20 times with non WHS vendors despite knowing that the majority of these vendors offer products of dubious quality and in at least half of these times your order got cancelled? Though obviously - you can't really know the quality of the products where the order got cancelled, given that they (according to your claim) never arrived you, but I trust you had this information already before, did you?
You see, that this all is a bit confusing. do you?
BlackPeter, I can spot a junky dropship type product a mile away, without ordering it. You'll just have to take my word on that I'm afraid.
That established, I believe the rest of your points answer themselves.
Punters couldn't believe share price fell so much the other day so piling in big time to get the bargain of the year
Share price could be back over 3 bucks soon
look this tick is a dead horse....
forget it...
flogging a dead horse....
she will go down at the next fence...
2:28 Its a dog, its a dog pal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vziHnwB_mkM&t=15s
average analysts price target $3.53 lol https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/THE-WAREHOUSE-GROUP-LIMIT-6491364/consensus/
Obviously, none of them know preferred stock from livestock.
Here's one for you, WaltzyRare.jpg
Nice one Hector
Good phrase that 'living impaired'
Well actually the staff at T7 were pretty good he other day when we needed glasses protection...
if you buy them at your local bike shop the price would have been a lot higher....
Its just that this GROUP probably has a IT platform problem and the million spent on consultants seems to be that there are people out there that are very good at writing reports...
Reports on methodologly of the reports....
Ad infinitum
When an organisation becomes perpetual it lives for itself...
you can see it in sports bodies funded by tax payer money...
Dick Tonks said that rowing under mike stanley was the greatest producer of paper he had ever seen....
"Screeds of paper" was his exact words.... as i stood listening...
Screeds.....
imagine the endless IT development required to track E S G ...geee
it will be galloping on forever ...
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jan 03, 2023, 11:55 AM"Used to" being the key words here, BP. Remember too all the me-too Trademe sites that came...and went. The concept of Market is too late. The case for an aggregator site in 2023 is just not compelling.
The profits for the Market lie not from consumers buying from them but from TradeMe charging third party sellers for warehousing and fulfilment. That's how Amazon retail makes their money. Their own stuff that they sell online actually loses money, its their third party services that makes profits.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jan 04, 2023, 01:13 PMHere's one for you, Waltzy[url="https://stocktalk.co.nz/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=495;type=preview;file"]Rare.jpg[/url]
We have some new ones to add since 2020
- Refuting the premise that the horse is dead
- Paying the media to write articles proclaiming that the horse is in fact, alive and very, very healthy
- Denouncing any person who points out that the horse is in fact dead, as a crazy conspiracy theorist
- Fire, deplatform, and cancel any expert in any field who states that it is their belief that the horse is dead
- Change the meaning of the word "dead"
- When the evidence becomes incontrovertible that the horse is really dead, claim that they never said that it wasnt
Wandered into my local Warehouse yesterday. First time I had been in it in years (So long I can't remember). Was quite shocked. Same floor space but a whole lot less stock. Warehosue Stationery has moved in. And they didn't seem to sell much. So much space else where you could swing a cat (when I was last there racking was so tight no chance of swinging a cat. Even a dead one. And the shelves seemed about half full (may be a successful Boxing Day sale). It wasn't very busy - no queues at the limited checkout. And half the lights were off so had quite the gloomy feel to it. Didn't seem to be too many staff around.
( I gave up on Noel Leeming years ago: good stock range but appalling service) and anything specialised Torpedo 7 has I tend to buy off Amazon or elsewhere).
I bought WHS (after putting morals aside) at IPO years ago and sold out. Nothing about the shop front today would interest me in exploring them much further.
Amazing cutting 18,000 E.
wonder if this is just the start in the on line tech sector.
WHS has an up hill battle coming this year and the end of 2024 result will be very interesting but the SP still might not be a BG eve if it halves...
Quote from: Waltzing on Jan 05, 2023, 08:04 PMAmazing cutting 18,000 E.
wonder if this is just the start in the on line tech sector.
WHS has an up hill battle coming this year and the end of 2024 result will be very interesting but the SP still might not be a BG eve if it halves...
Think autocorrect might've got you on Amazon ;)
Salesforce, announced on Wed that they're laying off about 8,000 employees, 10% of its workforce. Prior to that Meta Platforms announced in November that it would lay off 11,000 employees, or 13% of its workforce. So yeah, maybe a bit of a trend.
WHS cut staff back in Oct 2021 - just over a thousand, most of them from the shop floor. Maybe that was evidence of Nick's forward thinking, leading the world in redundancies...
"leading the world in redundancies..."
classic ...
new add on History TV sounding a bit like the TRA lead lady TINA....
this ones a BBQ DJ ...sun block and fashion from farmers?
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jan 05, 2023, 09:24 PMWHS cut staff back in Oct 2021 - just over a thousand, most of them from the shop floor. Maybe that was evidence of Nick's forward thinking, leading the world in redundancies...
It really shows on the shop front and not in a good way. If you want neat and tidy shelves, it's basically a DIY project for customers themselves lol The local WHS store is an embarrassment and had very few larger men's sized summer wear.
Quote from: Basil on Jan 06, 2023, 09:52 AMIt really shows on the shop front and not in a good way. If you want neat and tidy shelves, it's basically a DIY project for customers themselves lol The local WHS store is an embarrassment and had very few larger men's sized summer wear.
Grayston said at the time that the redundancies were "
to realign some of our store operations closer to the needs of our customers." Obviously customer feedback had been that a 'hide and seek' approach to shopping was more desirable. It's for that outside the box kinda thinking that WHS pay him the big bucks, marvellous!
Would be kind of cool to earn $3.5m just to copy and paste the latest buzz words and phrases into speeches and press releases and then spend tens of millions on consultants to do the heavy lifting, pretty cool gig eh 😉
Quote from: Basil on Jan 06, 2023, 11:12 AMWould be kind of cool to earn $3.5m just to copy and paste the latest buzz words and phrases into speeches and press releases and then spend tens of millions on consultants to do the heavy lifting, pretty cool gig eh 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDq2JVqKys8&ab_channel=tonybennettVEVO
And you can probably get a recording of this at WHS, in the vast racks of CDs that are filed in no particular order and stupidly priced. And hence that no one buys.
Great song...this one also springs readily to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0
There were some pretty grumpy shareholders at the ASM. Joan basically ignored them.
Bored today (raining) só sent of an email to Company Sec to pass on to Joan. Just reminding her she didn't appear to listen to grumpy shareholders at the ASM but more importantly how her CEO is getting rubbished on investing forums and invited hereto have a read through this thread
Not a good look having a CEO that doesn't get much respect from the investing community I told her and suggested that she have a session with him how he can come across to investors as a switched on CEO, rather than being mocked.
Also suggested the Board as a whole should look at how they communicate strategy and updates.
Won't get any response ...... Joan's been there too long as well so criticism is like water of a ducks back
Quote from: winner (n) on Jan 06, 2023, 12:19 PMThere were some pretty grumpy shareholders at the ASM. Joan basically ignored them.
Bored today (raining) só sent of an email to Company Sec to pass on to Joan. Just reminding her she didn't appear to listen to grumpy shareholders at the ASM but more importantly how her CEO is getting rubbished on investing forums and invited hereto have a read through this thread
Not a good look having a CEO that doesn't get much respect from the investing community I told her and suggested that she have a session with him how he can come across to investors as a switched on CEO, rather than being mocked.
Also suggested the Board as a whole should look at how they communicate strategy and updates.
Won't get any response ...... Joan's been there too long as well so criticism is like water of a ducks back
I know he's American, and that English then is basically a foreign language, but she should suggest that he dials back hard on the obfuscation speak. Everything he says is dripping in waffle and ambiguity, such that he actually says nothing at all.
"...we're reviewing our business and challenging ourselves to make smart, sustainable choices on behalf our customers, so we're very cognisant of being part of the solution. How we help make living sustainably easy and affordable for our customers is front of mind. We don't have all the answers but we're on a journey that I'm very committed to personally." Nick on... climate change. Which oddly is what he is
most concerned about right now! I guess that's because he's a big picture kind of guy.
As a plus, he'll be pleased to know that his "journey" metaphor is validated in a recent study by Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, in which marketing researchers surveyed more than 1,600 people about the metaphors they used to think about their goals.
Compared to people who used the destination framing or no metaphor at all, the study authors found those who used the journey framing were significantly more likely to continue with the good habits they'd developed — even after meeting their initial goal. https://forge.medium.com/new-research-confirms-the-cheesiest-clich%C3%A9-about-success-e0b2aa9eb8cb
Speaking of journey's my best mate who lives at West Harbour just rang and got to complaining about the constant traffic queue's at the Westgate offramp of the North Western motorway. He said his wife had signed up for Costco but the place had been going off absolutely nuts ever since it opened months ago. Can't get into the place or find a carpark.
Lamented how his wife resorted to going to the local Warehouse at Westgate instead. Basically, said the place was like a morgue. I think its clear from the recent sales update that since Costco opened its having an impact and I think they have a few more stores planned in the next year or two as do K Mart.
Nick would do well to spend a LOT more time thinking about rationalising the size of the group's retail footprint and far less time engaging in fantasies of being a mini Amazon aggregator and ESG changemaker.
Quote from: Waltzing on Jan 05, 2023, 08:04 PMAmazing cutting 18,000 E.
wonder if this is just the start in the on line tech sector.
WHS has an up hill battle coming this year and the end of 2024 result will be very interesting but the SP still might not be a BG eve if it halves...
Its nothing, and its not enough. For perspective, Amazon hired 800,000 people during the Covid pandemic. That doubled their workforce. They currently have 1,600,000 employees.
I think all companies need to take a good look at what Elon Musk has done at Twitter and then a very long look at who they really need to be working at their companies. I doubt that Twitter is the only one with thousands of employees doing very little, and nothing meaningful.
Basil ....as long as the rationalising footprint is strategic' and 'tactical' it'll turn out ok.
Actually quoting Nick from 2017
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jan 06, 2023, 12:47 PM"...we're reviewing our business and challenging ourselves to make smart, sustainable choices on behalf our customers, so we're very cognisant of being part of the solution. How we help make living sustainably easy and affordable for our customers is front of mind. We don't have all the answers but we're on a journey that I'm very committed to personally."
Customers don't care about sustainability they care about prices, and buying things that dont fall apart after 5 minutes. People don't have the money to care when they are stressed about their mortgage/rent payments, the 20% food inflation, cost of petrol, and whether or not venturing out to a store is worth catching a virus for.
Companies need to stop pandering to the ESG loonies and start thinking about their customers. Like the supermarkets that decided off their own bat that "customers" only wanted to buy free range eggs so they werent going to buy colony eggs any more from farmers that had just spent millions on converting to colonies. Now we have no eggs.
Cartoon from a couple of years ago that could have easily represented Nick
821E7EA7-4911-4B99-9A15-DDFC89BDA58D.jpeg
How they celebrated 40 years in business in November.
The one day paid leave to give back to community per staff member is good but unremarkable as many other organizations do this too but come on Nick I think you are taking "the proverbial" splitting just $40,000 between all the branches to give to charity. That's absolutely pathetic. What about adding 10% of your egregiously excessive salary to it and making it $400,000 instead.
https://www.thewarehousegroup.co.nz/application/files/6116/6907/8189/Media_release_The_Warehouse_Group_launches_volunteer_leave_to_mark_40_years_.pdf
Quote from: KW on Jan 06, 2023, 01:29 PMIts nothing, and its not enough. For perspective, Amazon hired 800,000 people during the Covid pandemic. That doubled their workforce. They currently have 1,600,000 employees.
I think all companies need to take a good look at what Elon Musk has done at Twitter and then a very long look at who they really need to be working at their companies. I doubt that Twitter is the only one with thousands of employees doing very little, and nothing meaningful.
You mean every CEO should try to destroy his company as fast as possible as Elon does with Twitter? It is already just a Zombie left and in a year it will be history. Hope twitters creditors have access to Elons other funds.
Elon is clear evidence for the term "smart money" being an oxymoron. If people make money they stay as dumb and evil as they always have been.
"Elon Musk has done at Twitter "
thats why stated it might just be the "start".
yep Elon BP should have stuck to rockets and batteries.....
if he pulls this one out of bag it will be a miracle... thingee whatsit
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jan 06, 2023, 04:59 PMYou mean every CEO should try to destroy his company as fast as possible as Elon does with Twitter? It is already just a Zombie left and in a year it will be history. Hope twitters creditors have access to Elons other funds.
Elon is clear evidence for the term "smart money" being an oxymoron. If people make money they stay as dumb and evil as they always have been.
Its still operating just fine without all those employees. Cut your cost base like that, and many tech companies might actually turn a profit.
A few years ago I was at one of Nick's talks to suppliers etc about the future of Warehouse Group.
Besides all the omnichannel blah blah he made mention of bionic companies. A few of us looked at each other and asked what the heck is that guy on.
Maybe Nick still working on this bionic company ......maybe that's why he raves on about this MarketMedia and it's $20m of revenue ......maybe the Google person they have on the Board is helping him.
Here's what BCG say what a bionic company is
https://www.bcg.com/capabilities/digital-technology-data/bionic-company
Quote from: winner (n) on Jan 07, 2023, 09:01 AMA few years ago I was at one of Nick's talks to suppliers etc about the future of Warehouse Group.
Besides all the omnichannel blah blah he made mention of bionic companies. A few of us looked at each other and asked what the heck is that guy on.
Maybe Nick still working on this bionic company ......maybe that's why he raves on about this MarketMedia and it's $20m of revenue ......maybe the Google person they have on the Board is helping him.
Here's what BCG say what a bionic company is
https://www.bcg.com/capabilities/digital-technology-data/bionic-company
It brings to mind Lee Majors as
the bionic man, in
the Six Million Dollar Man and how every little boy wanted so much to be Steve Austin. Maybe Nick still does and he's kept that dream alive, bless. Unfortunately, with where WHS share price sits you can't even call him the Six Dollar Fifty Man.
Here's a neat Kiwi short from 2009 for another wet day - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxBpqMvGt-Q&ab_channel=cinemaetcie
Quote from: KW on Jan 06, 2023, 08:19 PMIts still operating just fine without all those employees. Cut your cost base like that, and many tech companies might actually turn a profit.
Did you had a recent look at their books? Where exactly did you see profits? Crushing debts, income sharply down and customers running for the hills. Sure, the amount of conspiracy theory peddlers and right wing idiots on twitter did increase, but the problem for Twitter is - they can't feed on nor live of hate ... any business needs money as income stream.
Quote from: KW on Jan 06, 2023, 01:29 PMIts nothing, and its not enough. For perspective, Amazon hired 800,000 people during the Covid pandemic. That doubled their workforce. They currently have 1,600,000 employees.
I think all companies need to take a good look at what Elon Musk has done at Twitter and then a very long look at who they really need to be working at their companies. I doubt that Twitter is the only one with thousands of employees doing very little, and nothing meaningful.
Seems Like Maccas read your post! They've announced "tough conversations" to "evaluate roles and staffing levels", with layoffs from April. This is despite "Systemwide sales" (revenues from franchised restaurants and those owned by the fast-food chain) having risen by $20bn to $120bn a year since 2019.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jan 07, 2023, 09:53 AMIt brings to mind Lee Majors as the bionic man, in the Six Million Dollar Man and how every little boys wanted so much to be Steve Austin. Maybe Nick still does and he's kept that dream alive, bless. Unfortunately, with where WHS share price sits you can't even call him the Six Dollar Fifty Man.
But when we pretended to be Steve Austin in the playground we would do the exaggerated slow running movement - maybe that's the part The Warehouse have taken from being bionic, i.e. the slow bit.
Oh we set up a test on the 5th...
online purchase T7... 3 sets of Sunglasses , blue on white rims.. Tifosi Vero, skycloud....
see what turns up amd when....
Downgrade (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-warehouse-group-cops-downgrade-in-ominous-sign-for-sector/A4KPBKFPMNHOZBOFEA5Y35EXJA/)
NZ Herald "Forsyth Barr has cut the retailer from outperform to neutral, and slashed its 12-month target price from $3.65 to $2.90. Shares closed yesterday at $2.66. The stock is down 25 per cent over the past year. "
They note specifically the threat from Costco but also point to weakening consumer demand, margin pressure and continued higher costs.
Quote from: Waltzing on Jan 07, 2023, 06:46 PMOh we set up a test on the 5th...
online purchase T7... 3 sets of Sunglasses , blue on white rims.. Tifosi Vero, skycloud....
see what turns up amd when....
What's turned up waltz?
waiting.... waiting on YA... T7....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvaa4pm26A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd_gmXHZy3E
QuoteThey said The Warehouse Group is now trading at a 12x one-year forward price/earnings multiple against their revised forecast "and we believe the risk-reward is balanced".
The Warehouse Group is trading in line with its immediate peers. Briscoe Group is trading at an 11.5x multiple.
Cutting earnings to $70.5m, oh my goodness that's only 20.3 cps and implies with a payout ratio @ 70%, only 14 cps in dividends.
Andy Bowley has asked some good questions in call's I've tuned into so I am pretty disappointed he cannot see that WHS is not a growth company and if we apply the time-tested Ben Graham no growth PE of 8.5 to current year earnings, you're going to struggle to see any value above $2, even assuming this is trough year earnings. 8.5 x 20.3 = $1.72. Obviously, the market does see FY23 as recession year earnings otherwise the shares wouldn't still be where they are. Time will tell how well, if at all, this recovers in FY24 and beyond.
As for comparing WHS with other listed retailers...they're all very different kettles of fish, some with excellent Australian / International growth opportunities and others, none. I am looking forward to the day HLG is trading at a PE of 12 on FY23 earnings. It'll happen sooner or later, and you can afford to be very patient when getting a gross yield of ~ 10%.
Quote from: Basil on Jan 10, 2023, 02:25 PMAs for comparing WHS with other listed retailers...they're all very different kettles of fish, some with excellent Australian / International growth opportunities and others, none. I am looking forward to the day HLG is trading at a PE of 12 on FY23 earnings. It'll happen sooner or later, and you can afford to be very patient when getting a gross yield of ~ 10%.
Yup, agreed. That was a lazy piece of 'analysis.' Certainly The Warehouse's previous adventures in the home of the budgie smuggler (https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2023/jan/07/happy-to-let-it-hang-out-budgie-smugglers-are-back-on-australian-beaches) were anything but 'excellent,' a different kettle of feesh indeed.
Be interesting to compare the performance when it comes ...
"Briscoe Group is trading at an 11.5x multiple."
Ouch that budgie smuggler hurt my eyeballs something terrible lol.
Agree Waltz - I'd back Rod's abilities over Nick's in a heartbeat. That said, neither has international expansion opportunities and interestingly both in a steep downturn from a TA point of view.
Yes but long term BRISC doesnt have all these troubles and probably better back office...
probably simpler company to run..
WHS just looks like to many moving bits...
SImple is good sometimes ...
Brisc might be a top up later in the year ...
Yeah in a two horse race your money has to be on Rod everytime, after all his Dad was an Adelaide bookie. However, at the moment neither Briscoes, and esp not Whs strike me as compelling investment cases. Plenty of time to consider retail stocks when the economic metrics are more positive.
Brisc might not get to much more compelling if inflation doesnt keep going up....
US 10yr is only now 3.5
forget the local one it doesnt count. Sure Brisc might get to 4 later in the year but what if they dont cut the DIV....
if they dont cut the DIV and Brisc gets to 4 well.... all bets are off or rather
take the bet .... i think ROD'S FATHER WOULD...
Brutal ....Jarden says UNDERWEIGHT and target of 2.45
From BusinessDesk
Investment advisory firm Jarden has downgraded its rating for The Warehouse Group from neutral to underweight following a Christmas slump.
In an update published on Monday, analyst Guy Hooper said sales momentum slowed over the holiday period, with group sales falling 5.5% compared to the eight weeks to December the previous year.
With rising cost pressures and dampened consumer confidence, Jarden was forecasting a 4.4% decline in year-on-year sales over the remainder of the 2023 financial year.
Shares in the group dropped 7% on Dec 30 after it disclosed its quarter two results, ranging from a 1.3% drop in sales for The Warehouse to 11.8% for Noel Leeming.
The Warehouse Group shares were trading at $2.63 on Monday morning.
Taking into account factors like earnings guidance and consumer confidence, Hooper revised down the 12-month target price for the shares from $3.15 to $2.45.
"In our view, [The Warehouse Group] is most exposed in the sector to a broader slowdown given the degree of operating leverage in the business and its net debt balance."
Not really brutal. Wake me up when we're under $2 again.
Jeez. ...... hope Nick getting really worried
They said a few weeks ago Noel Leeming sales were DOWN 11.8% compared to the same period last year — basically Nov/Dec period
JB HiFi have just reported their Q2 NZ were UP 9.8% on pcp. (That's Oct/Dec period)
Seems JB HiFi taking Noel Leemings to the cleaners.....gaining big chunks of market share
Should Nick be worried?
Didn't a Noel Leemings man go and join JB HiFi —— hmmmm
Well WINNER the T7 order finally arrive today...
Ordered on the 5th...arrive central WAIKATO NZ post mail center on the 11 Th....
Took from the 12th to the 21st for NZ post to get the Parcel here... 25 KM distance.
Glasses...
Customer support was second to none ... great team at T7...
Hopeless team at NZ POST....
Privatise it ...hopeless...
That's a joke.
Transformational.............
no doubt about it....
T7 sorted it ...
finally a white Pensioner arrived in a private courier van NZ POST must have contacted after several repeated request from T7....
Its the Transformational economy....
definitely not transportational.....
nor teleportational...
Hmmm, generally I find NZ Post pretty good and due to our remote location most of our purchasing is done online and delivered.
Back to WHS... The reviews for The Warehouse highlight two common concerns. 1. Understaffing of shop floor 2. Issues with store management.
Supports previous commentary about their need to refocus on the physical stores, which after all are actually generating the cash.
https://www.glassdoor.co.nz/Reviews/The-Warehouse-Reviews-E41964_P2.htm?filter.iso3Language=eng
There's an article in NBR about online supermarket Supie.
They seem to be struggling big time - no sales growth and operating expenses about the same as sales ...ouch.
The good news they say is -
The silver lining in the update was that Supie was now available nationwide, as the company has partnered with the Warehouse Group's The Market to deliver groceries outside Auckland.
"It's really been awesome to work with [the Market]," Balle said.
I see recently Supie did some crowdfunding (or similar).
Would imagine would need deep pockets to compete in the big pond with the big fish..... :-\
Quote from: Sideshow Bob on Jan 23, 2023, 01:41 PMI see recently Supie did some crowdfunding (or similar).
Would imagine would need deep pockets to compete in the big pond with the big fish..... :-\
Seems 700 punters put in $3.9m
But runway running out and they need a longer runway so looking for new investors
Maybe Nick should pump in a bit
I expect it will be a wasted effort,much like WHS's grocery effort ..
I was at Barrington Warehouse on Saturday morning,and bought 2 jars of coffee.
One check out open.Two people in front of me,neither had a trolley,just a few hand held items.
I then went to St Martins New World.Four check outs open.Customers had trolley loads of goods.
Supie (https://supie.co.nz/)appear to have borrowed Bunnings web design and price promise. (https://supie.co.nz/content/price-promise)
Good luck to them if The Market is going to be their saving. Sounds like a stupie solution (sorry) to me.
Quote from: lorraina on Jan 23, 2023, 02:14 PMI expect it will be a wasted effort,much like WHS's grocery effort ..
I was at Barrington Warehouse on Saturday morning,and bought 2 jars of coffee.
One check out open.Two people in front of me,neither had a trolley,just a few hand held items.
I then went to St Martins New World.Four check outs open.Customers had trolley loads of goods.
thanks for the observation. a timely reminder that shelf space is a valuable commodity in a retail outlet - and if you aren't getting the pull through from loss leaders that more than offsets their GP & the lost shelfspace you need to do something about that soon.
themarket you could put in the "do something soon about it category" but lord knows what will happen there
pretty interesting to watch, really.
Stating again how amazed i was at the level of service experianced at T7... If top management isnt performing the staff cetainly were..
Says something for retail staff on the front lines..
Shop was busy on a monday morning after Xmas selling glasses and surf wear plus paddle boards Central Hamilton.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/warehouse-group-proposes-cutting-190-jobs-in-auckland/NHQHAEA7UZFBTOVS5B5U27KML4/
190 jobs to get the axe. My take: Shame its not 191. A complete fiasco that a company making modest money for its size is jettisoning ~ $25m per annum down the drain on the CEO's whim and fantasy he can build a N.Z. style Amazon and he's paid a whopping $3.5m per annum to bring this punishment down on WHS shareholders. $25m + 3.5M - $28.5m obvious savings right there. By contrast 190 staff @ say an average of $60K each is only saving $11.4m per annum. Hmmm
Get basil.....looks like the savings from disposing of 190 heads going into even more digital stuff.
From RNZ a Warehouse spokesperson said "This proposed change will allow us to deliver even more value to our customers and further align our digital capabilities while responding to challenging market conditions."
I've forgotten how much you said they've spent on consultants these last few years...wasn't it something like $75m ? Why do they need to pay consultants all that money when the company is so incredibly top heavy with senior management paid exceptionally well already? Shouldn't management and their huge army of higher level support staff already have the know-how to run what is at its core, simply a bunch of retail business's?
Maybe they need to spend another $75M on consultants so they can boost their market.com losses to $50m per annum and then they can lay even more staff off to make up the difference. ::) Talk about being on a road to nowhere.
Basil - that $75m (AFTER TAX) over the last few years wasn't all consultants - it was all about restructuring and becoming AGILE so included redundancies as well as consultants. But I reckon consultants got the biggest chunk of it.
in F20 I was horrified with this bit in the accounts - $22.0m of restructuring costs associated with the transformation programme (internally known as "Rise") for success fees payable to management consultancy firm based on achievement of expected outcomes
Never mind all 'adjustments'and didn't show up in Adjusted NPAT so hunky dory
But NPAT seems to be back to where they before they started all this so it seems all wasted effort but then if they hadn't done it they might not be here today
FYI - Adjustments from 2017 to 2022 totalled $153m (after tax) ..... huge eh, lots and lots of bucks on stuff that doesn't count
Quotein F20 I was horrified with this bit in the accounts - $22.0m of restructuring costs associated with the transformation programme (internally known as "Rise") for success fees payable to management consultancy firm based on achievement of expected outcomes
Oh my goodness. Absolute lunacy they would sign up to a deal like that.
All these so called "transformational" and restructuring projects and capex, (forgive me I have forgotten but isn't the budgeted capex about $135m this year?), is nothing more than stay in business expenses, no matter what buzzword label they put on it. I reckon most of this year's capex is being funded by debt which makes me wonder how many more years can they keep flushing ~ $25m per annum down the toilet on themarket.com?
"Never mind all 'adjustments'and didn't show up in Adjusted NPAT so hunky dory"
uuummmm... how does a payment not show up in a ledger... not an ACA accountant but ledgers are usually kept for payments from a bank accounts arnt they?
what were the adjustments... which page of the FA reports winner?
Quote from: Waltzing on Jan 27, 2023, 10:20 AM"Never mind all 'adjustments'and didn't show up in Adjusted NPAT so hunky dory"
uuummmm... how does a payment not show up in a ledger... not an ACA accountant but ledgers are usually kept for payments from a bank accounts arnt they?
what were the adjustments... which page of the FA reports winner?
You should know how this done by now waltz
There is a Reported NPAT (done the proper way) but then they adjust (on paper) for all things that don't count to get an Adjusted NPAT
It is the Adjusted NPAT they headline and use as a profit measure (Nick would say this Adjusted NPAT better reflects the group performance going forward ha ha)
Fletchers are pretty good at this trick as well ...they call it Normalised Operating Profit .....and even Heartland have learnt this trick
Winner yes "adjusted" "normalised" but where in FA was it reported..
got a touch day ahead debugging our private multi consolidated entity Journal modelling and OMC transaction processing software ...
the software to reconcile the OMC transaction mess is over 8000 lines of OOP code... Multi entity journal modelling is script model event driven and debug which event is triggering which class method is a big job...and im not the chiel head monkey.
where was it stated as would like to have a read...
which part of the FA report.... much appreciated... becuase 20 M is a huge amount..
Waltz ... in Statement of Comprehensive Income there's a line Unusual Items and then you go to Note 5 to find out what they are (2020 AR)
Waltz ..I'm glad you are compellingly evisculating ethical interfaces in your endeavours to collaboratively productivate corporate functionalities
Well done
IOMCAccount Interface(),com
methods
End
the banking and broking transaction centres and databases have no GUID's or transaction Idenfication attribute fields or triggers....
and if they do exists or Did exist they are no longer exposed for third party processing.
The consultants can joy ride a system where the anti money laws are just window dressing and no automation can audit the transactions.
The NZ transaction integrity is broken and decrepit as there is no institutional knowledge on the radical huge investment that is needed to create a new high tech banking and broking system.
In short why would you keep money in the country's systems when they are broken...
Het Waltz ...maybe if WHS used Xero they would have to count everything
No Winner... thats third party..
the problem is the orgination transaction sources.. IE the Banks..
Your banking system is old and broking databases are not exposing the field data they should be. About 10 years ago they did have at least the order No in them but no transaction ID. You cant reprocess or import data without a range and those ranges are delimited by ID GUID numeric fields.
One suspects that the usual suspects have old systems created back in the 1980s and they have just keep building on the old stuff...
Broking reporting systems are all fancy graphs and the reporting files are ........
WHS suffers from bringing together 2 or 4 different platforms and then maybe getting it all talking and singing with the market...
expect the IT problem is far to big for a simple little end user accounting cloud platform built for dummies to use.
"5.0 ADJUSTED NET PROFIT
6.0 EARNINGS PER SHARE
Adjusted net profit reconciliation Note 2020 2019
$ 000 $ 000
Adjusted net profit 80,744 74,103
Add back: Unusual items
Gain on property disposals 88 11,761
Restructuring costs - Rise (22,006) (15,718)
Restructuring costs - Agile (22,189) -
Change in fair value of derivatives that are not hedge effective 13.2 (6,427) -
Brand impairment (Torpedo7) 9.2 (2,545) (5,478)
Unusual items before taxation and NZ IFRS 16 adjustments (53,079) (9,435)
Adjustments for NZ IFRS 16 (154) -
Income tax on the unusual items above 14,905 2,642
Income tax relating to building depreciation 4.1 2,025 -
Unusual items after taxation (36,303) (6,793)
Net profit from continuing operations attributable to shareholders of the parent 44,441 67,310"
ok got it ...
RISE!!!!
what the Fxxx is that....
agile descritpion of "show me the money!!!!!"
they had a huge amount of cash lying around and instead of giving it back to share holders they gave it to some drinking friends...
$20m+ spent on rise and agile and they still cannot grow profits. Hmmm
40 million.... that gets you what ?
how many agile monkeys... swinging from the trees...
they must have created a gaint rest API by hand or something...
its 40 million in restructuring right? am i seeing things.....
did they create a new AI software platform called the market....
MS is investing 10 billion in Chat thingee.... which kind of tells me they are going to take over the internet..... 10 billion creates a whole robot platform complete with 6th generation transformer robots...
40 million gets you a lot of people working for 12 months on restructing what?
a whole new distribution network? but thats not restructing thats capital expenditure.
well they did not drop the ball on 4 sets of sun glasses that came from 2 different locations....
but after 40 million im not surprised...
NZ post took 2 weeks to deliver... now thats a GOVT or something that does need radical structuring...
My experience today with Noel Leeming might be indicative of why they're trading so poorly. We made an order for 70 chromebooks last year with them because they said they had them in stock and that they'd be with us at the end of January. Today we got an email saying that they did not have the stock and our order was going to be delayed (by an unspecified time.) The excuse was that the person in charge of the order had been off work with cancer treatment. Yes, that's sad and I do wish them every chance of recovery. However...whoa! Surely a large retail chain should have adequate systems and processes to cover an absent employee. That is just basic business practice. Noel that is a total sh**show on your behalf and that will be our last order with you.
Interesting feedback there Hectorplains, thanks for sharing.
Back end system stock failure.
well our little 4 sets of sun glasses for personal outdoor use T7 performed perfectly not so NZ post...
T7 has great personal but a small order of 4 was hardly likely to test the Back End.
It feels like we've been here (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131237038/the-warehouse-expands-into-fresh-fruit-veges) before. Nick's determined in taking WHS back to the future. That was 2006...it'll be different this time, eh.
The warehouse still committed to expanding their grocery range at a competitive price level...last par:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131243709/is-it-cheaper-to-buy-your-groceries-at-the-warehouse-or-the-supermarket
More detail on current expanded store:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131237038/the-warehouse-expands-into-fresh-fruit-veges?rm=a
If the supermarkets are still planning on not selling colony cage eggs, there is probably a big opportunity in the egg market for them to lock up colony cage producers long term. Then lets see consumers vote with their wallets.
Quote from: KW on Feb 16, 2023, 08:36 PMIf the supermarkets are still planning on not selling colony cage eggs, there is probably a big opportunity in the egg market for them to lock up colony cage producers long term. Then lets see consumers vote with their wallets.
No, can't do anything to offend the woke.
Quote from: KW on Feb 16, 2023, 08:36 PMIf the supermarkets are still planning on not selling colony cage eggs, there is probably a big opportunity in the egg market for them to lock up colony cage producers long term. Then lets see consumers vote with their wallets.
This is why I look elsewhere, like local butchers, for eggs now. Even if the are the same price as the supermarket, the supermarkets can get fu....
I have been buying Nescafe coffee at WHS until yesterday, when I bought a jar at New World,as the price was very close to WHS's..
This means I no longer need to go to WHS.
I guess Foodstuffs are trying to make life more difficult for WHS.
Quote from: lorraina on Feb 17, 2023, 11:05 AMI have been buying Nescafe coffee at WHS until yesterday, when I bought a jar at New World,as the price was very close to WHS's..
This means I no longer need to go to WHS.
I guess Foodstuffs are trying to make life more difficult for WHS.
I am sure they do. And as soon as everybody buys back in the supermarket they can ramp up their prices again ...
We try to support the warehouse.
For us we shop at New World once or twice a week.
Only go near a WHS store once every three or four weeks.
Quote from: lorraina on Feb 17, 2023, 01:00 PMFor us we shop at New World once or twice a week.
Only go near a WHS store once every three or four weeks.
On another tangent, I'm a little surprised WHS haven't made a bigger deal of the pet sector, or gone more down the line of "Warehouse Pet" or "Pet Warehouse" - taking on the likes of Animates and Petstock etc.
I know WHS have pet stuff, but pets these days are treated more like a member of the family, and the pet spend has increased hugely over the years.
Quote from: Sideshow Bob on Feb 17, 2023, 01:23 PMOn another tangent, I'm a little surprised WHS haven't made a bigger deal of the pet sector, or gone more down the line of "Warehouse Pet" or "Pet Warehouse" - taking on the likes of Animates and Petstock etc.
I know WHS have pet stuff, but pets these days are treated more like a member of the family, and the pet spend has increased hugely over the years.
Agreed, Bob. I can't see the point in a race to the bottom for WHS with fresh produce. Especially when as the newcomer they lack variety. No point in plugging produce without a butchery too. Supermarkets really haven't twigged to the money in the pet market, most of their shelves are stock with low margin - low quality offerings.
Nearly double (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131261921/the-warehouse-group-looks-to-lay-off-more-staff-in-response-to-challenging-conditions) the number of staff to be laid off than previously announced. Not a great update.
From KW on another thread
Bunnings moves into petcare
https://www.afr.com/companies/retail/bunnings-launches-biggest-expansion-in-decades-20230224-p5cneg
In its largest category expansion since introducing kitchens nearly two decades ago, Wesfarmers-owned hardware giant Bunnings will launch a specialty pet-care department offering items ranging from food to toys and bowls for cats, dogs and birds.
The department will launch next month and include close to 1000 new items in a major expansion of its current offering of kennels, mats, bedding and pet doors, as Bunnings seeks a larger slice of the fast-growing $10 billion specialty pet sector.
Red Sheds have a skimpy range and the odd pallet of Tux biscuits .... I told Nick a few years ago pet sales could be huge if they did it properly
Obviously didn't listen and If Bunnings do this in NZ that opportunity for category expansion in the Red Sheds has gone begging
NZ spend zillions on their pets ..(maybe even more than clothees lol)
It's as though WES read your comments on an expanded pet department the other day. I thought that was a good point. May not be too late though for a feasibility study, if not done already.
Quote from: Onemootpoint on Feb 16, 2023, 06:57 PMThe warehouse still committed to expanding their grocery range at a competitive price level...last par:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131243709/is-it-cheaper-to-buy-your-groceries-at-the-warehouse-or-the-supermarket
More detail on current expanded store:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/131237038/the-warehouse-expands-into-fresh-fruit-veges?rm=a
Fired up the Fokker for a short flight to the Riccarton Varehouse. I needed to votocopy some secret papers. This seems to be the main reason for me to visit the varehouse these days.
Vile there, I noticed the fruit and veges. 1.5kg of top quality Ohakune carrots for $4. None of this ugly vege stuff. The Baron alvays goes for the best, and these are it. So 'even in size' are these carrots, and not so big, I think I could fit them in the rotating magazine of my front mounted machine gun. Ha Ha! That will give my arch nemesis Herr von Schnoopy something to worry about, as vell as something to add to his supper dish! Picked up a pack of 4 top quality peppers for $5 as vell. Also a packet of Vaikato branded chocolate almonds. Almonds lower blood sugar levels, reduce blood pressure, and lower cholesterol levels. They can also reduce hunger and promote veight loss. Vaikato almonds are 'Basic health food' for a Vorld Var One Vet.
On the vay out I noticed several customers with with fruit and veges in their trolleys, vile others were buying non food lines. There didn't seem to be huge crossover between the two groups.
My flight path home took me over a shopping area called 'Tower Junction'. I noticed the construction of a beautiful new hanger, big enough to svallow a squadron of Fokker triplanes. But vot is this label across the front of the building? 'Torpedo 7'? I have seen a 'Torpedo 7' store before, but nothing on the scale of this! Ground scouts in Christchurch please confirm. Something is afoot, and outdoor retailing rivals are not going to like it!
RB
Not so flash: The Warehouse as well as Warehouse Stationary and Noel Leemings featured (unfortunately again) ways below average in the recent Consumer Satisfaction Survey of the Consumer Magazine.
Here is the link (for access it helps if you are a subscriber):
https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/retail-service
Not sure the results are consistent with my personal impressions - I found Warehouse staff always helpful and happy to replace / refund broken goods (during and even beyond the warranty period), but still wish they could improve their act ... unhappy customers mean in the long run unhappy shareholders.
Do you listen, Nick?
Haven't heard from WHS since the sad story put out just after Christmas
Half year result next Thursday..wonder what'll be
Last they told us was H123 Gross Margin $s broadly in line with pcp but CODB and depreciation to be $20m-$25m higher.
H122 NPAT was $48m so that 'guidance' suggests H123 NPAT will be around $32m ......down 33%
Hope it's no worse than that because being 33% down is pretty bad
But no worries as Market Club membership must be approaching 1 million by now ....that's cool!
WHS share price pretty weak last week and closed at 239
Heading back to the 200 level I reckon
Wonder if Nick regrets buying Basils shares at 411 not that long ago ...prob not as he's on a pretty good deal with his pay and bonuses
What a disaster
No divie says it all .....what will Tindall Foundation do now?
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/408784/391201.pdf
Nick probably not even embarrassed with such a result
And they are giving him a big bonus if he stays on for a few more years....and probably get a big payout if they sack him
$1.8b in sales to make $17m in profit. Why bother?
Quote from: Minimoke on Mar 23, 2023, 09:19 AM$1.8b in sales to make $17m in profit. Why bother?
It gives some people something to do during the day..
Bit time poor this morning so just a very brief initial first impressions comment.
What a complete train wreck. They pay Nick several million dollars per annum and this disaster is what he delivers. No confidence to even pay a small dividend. Oh my goodness! Better not post what I think the shares are worth now, some holders might get their pitch forks out.
Quote from: Basil on Mar 23, 2023, 10:26 AMBit time poor this morning so just a very brief initial first impressions comment.
What a complete train wreck. They pay Nick several million dollars per annum and this disaster is what he delivers. No confidence to even pay a small dividend. Oh my goodness! Better not post what I think the shares are worth now, some holders might get their pitch forks out.
Looks like Nick needs the go and the restructuring needs to start.
I couldn't wait to sell these last year after the last report.
Edit: I see they are making 340 people redundant.
One has to start worrying when the admit the final F22 dividend of $30m odd wasn't covered by 0perational cash flow and then talk about increased debt ceilings etc etc
It seems that they also paid $80m of bills post balance date so the Cash Flow Statement is a fair reflection of what went on.
One thing is that if you include that $80m paid to creditors WHS Group has burned through $244m in the last 12 months
Yep Free Cash Flow negative $244m .... shocking for a company that in spite of all its sins etc is usually cash flow positive.
No wonder no Interim dividend and Chair Joan wouldn't commit to their being a Final Dividend in analyst briefing
WOW those are really scary cash outflow numbers Winner.
Shareholders must be fuming that they are getting nothing while management are creaming it with HUGE salaries paid to the C Suite. (6 people paid more that $1m reported in 2022 annual report, Nick paid more than $3.5m)
9 people paid more than $860K, source page 104 http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/399491/379870.pdf
Company turns over billions, senior management are paid extremely handsomely, the board are fully paid for very average governance, the company makes peanuts and shareholders get nothing. WOW, what a deal, where do I sign up for more of that...
Don't think Nick is too worried about those tens of thousands of shares I sold him a while back at $4.11, he only has 70,000 shares so it doesn't really matter when you're creaming it for $3.5m+ in annual salary and bonus's.
Looking at the divisional performance, amazing to see that losses on The Market are accelerating from $12m in the PCP to a whopping $16 million this half!
How much longer do they keep flogging that dead horse expansion strategy?
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/408784/391202.pdf
Corporate overheads through the roof too...but its all okay because now they have over a million subscribers to The Market.... Suppose Nick in line for another huge bonus this year for growing the market subscribers so well....the bigger the market gets, the bigger the market losses become....that's "brilliant"!
Quote from: Basil on Mar 23, 2023, 01:17 PM.....
average governance, the company makes peanuts and shareholders get nothing. WOW, what a deal, where do I sign up for more of that...
The Warehouse - Where everyone gets a bargain!
6.3m related to restructuring, on top of what they have already spent plus the truckloads they have emptied into "The Market" money-pit. All of this discretionary expenditure - literally tens of millions - is at the heart of why they are in negative cash flow. They weren't forced to do any of this - these are management initiatives that have turned WHS from a cash rich, pretty steady, if unspectacular company, into an absolute train wreck. Heads should role, but they probably won't. The shareholders and employees will bear the brunt of it all. I know economic times are hard but this is exactly why organisations should stick at and enhance what they do best. You don't see Briscoe's or HLG cancelling dividends and that's all down to sustainable business models and being tightly run by people who know what they are doing. The Red Sheds - soon to be renamed The Dead Sheds!
MANAGEMENT HAS NO STAKE IN THE COMPANY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_iorX_MAw
The key difference between Briscoes and HLG on the one hand and WHS on the other is with the former, management have a large stake in the company and with the latter their stockholding is only a token one. Someone needs to get up at the annual meeting and do a Gordon Gekko on them.
33 Vice presidents making over $200,000 per year (quote from Wall Street).
From the 2022 annual report WHS has the following number of executives in these salary bands
$200K-$300K 68
$300K-$400K 29
$400K -$500K 5
$500K-$600K 5
More than the Prime Minister is paid last time I checked; we have the following
$600K-$700K 3
$700K-$800K 3
$800K-$900K 2
$900K-$1,000K 2
$1,270K+ 1
$1,360K+ 1
$1,380K+ 1
$1,420K+ 1
$1,700K+ 1
$3,560K+ 1 (Obviously Nick)
My contention is we have a very poorly performing company that management have no real stake in, and the pigs at the trough are absolutely rampant.
In addition to the above we have Nick with his delusional theories about the Market with every increasing losses each year shaping up to be over $30m in FY23.
But wait this is a story that keeps on giving. On top of that there is $14m of unallocated corporate overhead this period up millions on last period so the real losses at the Market are probably higher than $16m for the half if all overhead was allocated.
Why are they paying these Muppets millions per annum to flush $30 million plus per annum down the toilet on the market?
I assume there's been a business case for this Market thing.....signed off by the Board
Wonder how they going against milestones
Pretty good I suppose cos there's a million plus active users
Quote from: Basil on Mar 23, 2023, 04:51 PMMANAGEMENT HAS NO STAKE IN THE COMPANY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_iorX_MAw
The key difference between Briscoes and HLG on the one hand and WHS on the other is with the former, management have a large stake in the company and with the latter their stockholding is only a token one. Someone needs to get up at the annual meeting and do a Gordon Gekko on them.
33 Vice presidents making over $200,000 per year (quote from Wall Street).
From the 2022 annual report WHS has the following number of executives in these salary bands
$200K-$300K 68
$300K-$400K 29
$400K -$500K 5
$500K-$600K 5
More than the Prime Minister is paid last time I checked; we have the following
$600K-$700K 3
$700K-$800K 3
$800K-$900K 2
$900K-$1,000K 2
$1,270K+ 1
$1,360K+ 1
$1,380K+ 1
$1,420K+ 1
$1,700K+ 1
$3,560K+ 1 (Obviously Nick)
My contention is we have a very poorly performing company that management have no real stake in, and the pigs at the trough are absolutely rampant.
In addition to the above we have Nick with his delusional theories about the Market with every increasing losses each year shaping up to be over $30m in FY23.
But wait this is a story that keeps on giving. On top of that there is $14m of unallocated corporate overhead this period up millions on last period so the real losses at the Market are probably higher than $16m for the half if all overhead was allocated.
Why are they paying these Muppets millions per annum to flush $30 million plus per annum down the toilet on the market?
Thats an obscene salary list. :o
Surely no one is overly surprised by any of this...The writing hasn't just been on the wall, it's covered the ceiling.
Quote from: Breezy on Mar 23, 2023, 05:56 PMThats an obscene salary list. :o
what's that saying...if you can't be part be part of the solution, there's still great money to be made in prolonging the problem
WHS say about retail conditions peak misery till to come
Quote from: winner (n) on Mar 24, 2023, 07:41 AMWHS say about retail conditions peak misery till to come
It certainly is for WHS shareholders. It occurs to me they are more than happy for shareholders to be the sacrificial lamb roasted on the bonfire of their idiotic and systemically flawed attempt to build a mini N.Z. version of Amazon. What's Nick's goal here?, doubling registered The Market users to about 2 million and doubling losses to about $60-$70m per annum sending the whole company broke?
That $14m in unallocated corporate overhead I was talking about yesterday is quite the "black hole" Lets just for arguments sake allocate that equally among the various divisions so one fifth to blue sheds, red sheds, Noel Leeming, Torpedo 7 and The market = another $2.8m in costs to each division so that takes the loss of The Market up from $16.0m to $18.8m, more than the company actually made in the half year so if they got rid of the market they could more than double their reported profit and pay shareholders a dividend!
I would hope that the pending job losses and restructuring would involve getting rid of at least half the pigs at the trough I referred to yesterday with their egregiously high salaries and then halving the remaining salaries of those left. The one who clearly deserves to go the most is Nick himself. The WHS is not a complicated international manufacturing operation requiring NASA scientist levels of intellectual capabilities, it's a simple retailer importing goods and selling them at retail, why the need to pay a whole army of high priced people?
I see there's a line in under the Profit line which sales Movement in hedge reserves (net of tax) (27,337)
- such items are noted as 'Items that may be reclassified subsequently to the Income Statement'
The impact was reducing Net Profit of $17.3m to a Total Compehensive Income of negative $10.3m
Wonder what thats all about
wonder how much the chocolate factory contributed to profit
Shouldn't skim through the Notes on the Financials
This is interesting - they hold $25m for 'Reward schemes, lay-bys, Christmas club deposits and gift vouchers'
That's quite a sum - a bit like AIR prepaid fares
Oh my goodness, another black hole in the accounts, surely not!
Looks like they got hammered on their forex forward cover, see note 16
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/408784/391203.pdf
As at last balance date they had derivatives as a $28.8m asset and as at 31 January that's now a $22.4m liability, a turnaround in net derivatives position of $51.2m. It would seem they have accounted for $27.3m of that change as a below the line extraordinary item but that's not actually explained by way of note in the statement of financial performance so who knows for sure? If I'm right, and I am not sure I am, as they are in the game of importing things using forex is it really an extraordinary item? I think not so the real picture just got a LOT worse.
I guess a fair bit of that remaining derivatives liability of $22.4m will be brought to account in the current period so out of the money forex contracts look like a real headwind in 2H. No wonder they are so coy on whether they will pay a final dividend.
How on earth do you value this company now? Best I don't post my gut feel of what it's really worth now...seeing as we are supposed to be all politically correct and sensitive to others feelings now. One thing for sure, if they got rid of Nick and canned the stupid market thing it would be worth a LOT more!
$30 million spent on "computer software" note 11.
Hmm, i wonder how much of this is themarket further development.
Quote from: Basil on Mar 24, 2023, 10:28 AMOh my goodness, another black hole in the accounts, surely not!
Looks like they got hammered on their forex forward cover, see note 16
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/408784/391203.pdf
As at last balance date they had derivatives as a $28.8m asset and as at 31 January that's now a $22.4m liability, a turnaround in net derivatives position of $51.2m. It would seem they have accounted for $27.3m of that change as a below the line extraordinary item but that's not actually explained by way of note in the statement of financial performance so who knows for sure? If I'm right, and I am not sure I am, as they are in the game of importing things using forex is it really an extraordinary item? I think not so the real picture just got a LOT worse.
I guess a fair bit of that remaining derivatives liability of $22.4m will be brought to account in the current period so out of the money forex contracts look like a real headwind in 2H. No wonder they are so coy on whether they will pay a final dividend.
How on earth do you value this company now? Best I don't post my gut feel of what it's really worth now...seeing as we are supposed to be all politically correct and sensitive to others feelings now. One thing for sure, if they got rid of Nick and canned the stupid market thing it would be worth a LOT more!
I suspect this is more smoke & mirrors from management....
As per their 22 Annual report their Interest cover covenant is "Interest cover will not be less than 2 times operating profit."
They are only just scraping by with how they report. If they added this in they would be in breach.
I estimate their interest costs to be $32m next 6 months which will require Operating profit $64m
Also of note is their gearing ratio is 50%. With borrowings at $116m, they only have $72m of headroom.
While im sure all of this can be negotiated, be interesting to know what penalties they face if in breach.
Thanks for looking into the gearing Jimdog and for your comments on the other site. Gosh that debt situation looks scary. The board must be held accountable for allowing Nick to lead the company down into what is perhaps best described as a black hole with The Market. To have a line item of a whopping $27.3m in the statement of financial performance without an explanatory note in the accounts giving more detail, is a bit of a scandal in itself in my opinion.
You could have a very good point that this is creative accounting to get around a breech in debt covenants.
The question people might like to ask themselves is even if they do somehow manage to make double the interim profit at the full year result, $34m, that\s just 9.8 cents per share. Even if you were really kind and put a bottom of the economic cycle PE of 13 on that, my goodness that's a LONG way south of the current share price. Just as well it's all going to come right next year...or is it?
Quote from: winner (n) on Mar 18, 2023, 09:23 AMWHS share price pretty weak last week and closed at 239
Heading back to the 200 level I reckon
Wonder if Nick regrets buying Basils shares at 411 not that long ago ...prob not as he's on a pretty good deal with his pay and bonuses
That was just before the results came out
Below 2 bucks ...probably stay around 2 bucks for a while now.
Closing (Net Debt) / Net Cash (83.4) 150.0 (233.4) Completed a review of their half year presentation. This really stood out.
Absolutely remarkable that they went from having $150m in cash on the balance sheet at this time last year to having $83.4m in net debt a cash outflow of $233.4m in one year. A complete unmitigated disaster of Titanic proportions in my opinion.
98% of their vehicle fleet are EV's. How lovely for them that in addition to their fabulously generous salaries, management can swan around with greenie virtue signaling new EV's with all the expensive capex involved just being swung onto shareholders who have to forego a dividend.
If we have a closing price of 187 it will be the lowest close this century
Some effort
Quote from: Basil on Mar 28, 2023, 12:23 PM98% of their vehicle fleet are EV's. How lovely for them that in addition to their fabulously generous salaries, management can swan around with greenie virtue signaling new EV's with all the expensive capex involved just being swung onto shareholders who have to forego a dividend.
Does WHS buy the vehicles, or lease them like most other large corporate fleets?
That may be disclosed somewhere, but I didn't notice it.
Joan told Nick we've got to support the share price and demonstrate our confidence in the future peso we both need to buy some shares
Well done Joan on your purchase of 15,000 shares and even greater kudos to Nick for purchasing 20,000 shares
ALWAYS A GOOD SIGN WHEN CHAIR AND CEO BUY SHARES
Quote from: winner (n) on Mar 30, 2023, 03:02 PMJoan told Nick we've got to support the share price and demonstrate our confidence in the future peso we both need to buy some shares
Well done Joan on your purchase of 15,000 shares and even greater kudos to Nick for purchasing 20,000 shares
ALWAYS A GOOD SIGN WHEN CHAIR AND CEO BUY SHARES
Hang on a minute...didn't the share price tank the last time those two bought shares ;)
Honestly, I don't think it means anything when insiders buy.
Nick invested just on 1% of his salary ::) His total holding works out at around $170k... He's not got a lot of skin in this game.
Trademe's result offers some insight into the struggle for WHS Marketplace, given that Trademe too operates essentially as an aggragator and it has been in this game for a whole lot longer.
Trademe's online 'marketplace' made a net loss of $2.3m from revenue of $348.6m this last year. It's the same story as WHS - they're making lots of sales to lose $$$
The classified division, that is property, motoring and job advertisement listing fees, is their biggest earner, pulling in $225.6m. WHS Marketplace does not have the luxury of this income stream.
Trademe and WHS both enjoyed debt blow outs and made extravangant payments to management (a scarcely believeable $7.6 million in Trademe's case of "incentive payments" and "exercised equity options." Paying great money to generate poor results.)
I would love to discuss more about Titan Parent NZ Ltd's (aka Trademe) results but there's no dedicate topic for it.
Looking at the 2022 results a few things jump out - the increase (7%) in marketplace revenue (guess those no fee days do actually pay off) but also the 60% jump in interest bearing loans of which 70% of that was used to pay back the private equity.
If they do IPO they'll need to use some of the funds raised to get rid of some of that debt.
Quote from: User 358696 on Apr 03, 2023, 08:16 PMI would love to discuss more about Titan Parent NZ Ltd's (aka Trademe) results but there's no dedicate topic for it.
Looking at the 2022 results a few things jump out - the increase (7%) in marketplace revenue (guess those no fee days do actually pay off) but also the 60% jump in interest bearing loans of which 70% of that was used to pay back the private equity.
If they do IPO they'll need to use some of the funds raised to get rid of some of that debt.
Beware when private equity are looking for their exit, no good will come from it for subsequent or current investors. They'll stack the company with whatever they need to to get their money, ramp it to the moon and suck in the next tranche who won't see a return on their investment for a decade, if ever. Rinse and repeat. It's so obvious that it is deplorable, but seems to work for them every time.
What spending zillions on digital market does for you. From a tech guru -
I see @1day up to their usual crap again. Got a refurbished phone for somebody from The Market that's a US model that doesn't support all NZ bands.
No issues with the quality of the phone - it's just not the model they're advertising or what the box says (G970F). US model G970U is only single SIM not dual SIM.
"Pink Tax' in action they say
Got to make more dosh out of those who prefer pink eh Nick
https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/search?q=avoca%20aero%202
073B55A7-E89B-4308-96F6-C5E96C7FF8BC.jpeg
Quote from: winner (n) on Apr 15, 2023, 03:04 PM"Pink Tax' in action they say
Got to make more dosh out of those who prefer pink eh Nick
https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/search?q=avoca%20aero%202
073B55A7-E89B-4308-96F6-C5E96C7FF8BC.jpeg
Maybe the pink ones are sponsored by Synlait? This would makes sense ...
Quote from: BlackPeter on Apr 15, 2023, 06:00 PMMaybe the pink ones are sponsored by Synlait? This would makes sense ...
Good one ...makes sense lol
https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/THE-WAREHOUSE-GROUP-LIMIT-6491364/financials/
Who hasn't heard the tired old refrain... Are we there yet ? from one's kids when on a journey.
So now the shares are at $1.85 it's been quite the journey so far so it's a great question to ponder.
My goodness the analysts have taken the knife to their eps estimates in a huge way and only forecasting 10 cps this year for a PE even at this heavily correctly price of a whopping 18! Wow, just as well eps is going to recover so much in the years ahead...or are we really so sure of that any more ?
Let's, just for the sake of this academic exercise say we believe the analysts are right and FY23 really is deep trough earnings and a one-off, let's take expected FY24 eps of 16 cps at face value and even further recovery in FY25 (eps of 22 cps) even if analysts are forecasting only nominal growth in sales at below the rate of inflation.
On reflection after all the surprises of the Covid era, and gosh haven't there been a lot of them, I think one thing is very clear with the WHS. This is not a growth company and its never going to be.
So, if I use my time-honored methodology that has served me so well over the years when valuing no growth companies, the Ben Graham no growth PE of 8.5 and we take out the super normal eps of FY22 caused by covid and average the previous two years actual results and the forecast of the next 3 we get eps of 19,13,10, 16 and 22 = 80 /5 = 16 cps average. Put a no growth PE of 8.5 on that gives us fair value of $1.36. Even if we include the anomalous FY22 earnings of 26 cps and apply the same PE that gives us $1.06 / 6 = 17.67 x 8.5 = $1.50 Hmmm,
I think the answer is, sorry kids, we're not there yet. Just a thought. What if earnings don't bounce back in FY24 and FY25...oh my goodness, what's fair value then? :o
In due course if the price stays south of $2, and clearly, I see it quite some way south of there, it's likely to get booted out of the NZX50 which is another risk to consider in terms of possible further downside pressure. I can't see any reason to buy back in. A catalyst to possibly change my view would be the removal of Nick and his whacky idea's about the market and all the losses pertaining to that.
Can't think of any reason to own this company on a current year PE of 18 when you can buy high quality, well managed retailers like HLG and TRA who really do have genuine growth prospects in the years ahead, on a FY23 PE of about 9.
From todays market close round up -
Warehouse Group decreased 8c or 4.32% to $1.77. The Warehouse, which listed in 1994, is now trading at the same level as 1996, and over the past two decades its share price has fallen 68%, while rival Briscoe Group has increased 240% in the same period.
Some effort by WHS ...just as well they've paid some divies along the way
News is full of the new gigantic 24 hour K Mart store they've opened in South Auckland.
Doubt it will be their last new mega store. Costco also expanding.
Chatted with a good mate about this the other day. All that new white wear and brown wear people brought during Covid from Noel Leeming (like we brough a giant new freezer), probably won't need replacing for more than a decade. Between that fact sucking the wind out of Noel Leeming and WHS sales and K Mart and Costco expanding and a cost of living crisis, maybe there's real risk around next years average analyst projected eps of 16 cps ?
Looked at through the lens of average analyst estimated eps of only 10 cps this year and applying a no growth PE of 8.5, this is potentially only worth as little as 85 cents :o
They really need to jettison vast numbers of entitled executives on ridiculous salaries for this very ordinary company to have any chance of doing okay going forward. The board should be held accountable for allowing a culture of greed to become all pervasive within management of this company.
Salaries and numbers of executives making them I have posted details about a while back, (post#221) are egregiously unreasonable for a company making peanuts in earnings.
JB HiFi NZ sales Jan/March period up 10.8% on pcp
Their YTD (July/mar) sales up 14.8% pcp
Noel Leeming nowhere near achieving these growth rates ...Noel Leeming being taken to the cleaners
Interesting NZ sales much stronger than in OZ ...OZ sales flat in Jan/March
Gosh, Didn't WHS's top guy at Noel Leeming leave and take up the role at JB Hi Fi a while back ?
Amazing that JB Hi Fi can perform like that with the well-known pullback in big ticket white wear and brown wear goods. Surely one person doesn't make that much difference or maybe they do ?
Imagine how WHS could perform if they could get rid of Nick, his horrendous salary and all his stupid mini Amazon idea's and tens of millions per annum in the market losses.
They will have to cut of loose... bit of a loss... before its a noose round the neck... oops it already is a moose on the loose...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REvcyOW8S6U
Quote from: Basil on May 03, 2023, 01:37 PMGosh, Didn't WHS's top guy at Noel Leeming leave and take up the role at JB Hi Fi a while back ?
Amazing that JB Hi Fi can perform like that with the well-known pullback in big ticket white wear and brown wear goods. Surely one person doesn't make that much difference or maybe they do ?
Imagine how WHS could perform if they could get rid of Nick, his horrendous salary and all his stupid mini Amazon idea's and tens of millions per annum in the market losses.
Yes the NL man did end up at JBH .....and JBH done very well since compared to NL
WHS should be reporting Feb/April quarter sales next couple of weeks
Wonder how they going, esp NL v what JBH have reported.
Group wise no doubt we will hear a lot about staggering growth in grocery sales and the zillions of The Market customers .......but not much said about the rest of the group going down the gurgler
Quote from: winner (n) on May 03, 2023, 02:05 PMGroup wise no doubt we will hear a lot about staggering growth in grocery sales and the zillions of The Market customers .......but not much said about the rest of the group going down the gurgler
I just want to hear about how many eggs they are selling...... ;)
Quote from: Sideshow Bob on May 03, 2023, 03:08 PMI just want to hear about how many eggs they are selling...... ;)
Sad company, jeez I'd hoped it had turned the corner finally.
Quote from: Clearasmud on May 05, 2023, 01:43 PMSad company, jeez I'd hoped it had turned the corner finally.
They need to get rid of Nick and his stupid idea's. No corner to be turned before then.
Nick didn't mention the metaverse last time around .....still part of the ecosystem?
Just to remind Nick I sent him this article from Strategy + Business. Will love reading it ...and chase up his marketing and IT teams.
How business leaders should think about the metaverse in 2023
https://www.strategy-business.com/article/How-business-leaders-should-think-about-the-metaverse-in-2023
Quote from: Basil on May 05, 2023, 02:19 PMThey need to get rid of Nick and his stupid idea's. No corner to be turned before then.
Of course, if you turn enough corners, you'll end up going around and around in circles.
Quote from: Hectorplains on May 05, 2023, 08:04 PMOf course, if you turn enough corners, you'll end up going around and around in circles.
That is true but if you stay on a straight road to nowhere...
Tom always on the ball as usual
I've asked our Nick if he's employed a few AI Prompt Engineers to his Marketing / IT teams.
As Tom says -
The AI Prompt Engineer is suddenly an in-demand job, as organizations scramble how to work with generative AI. Insider recently reported salaries up to $375k for prompt engineers, even for those without a tech background.
It's currently a seller's market and "AI Prompt Engineer" is getting added to many a LinkedIn profile.
5E2B7354-C2B3-4805-9546-A102DD7CF16C.jpeg
actually its more a Criminal Psychologist job...
no your just giving me generative BS.....
Sales force is using it to consolidate email information on sales... imagine it....
wonder what bribes it will take ... look ive got this avatar who looks really great .... Come BOTY whats your game ....
What is Temu and why is it suddenly everywhere?
https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/10-05-2023/what-is-temu-and-why-is-it-suddenly-everywhere
The final paragraph of this article shoots off a warning to certain retailers;
"What impact is Temu going to have in New Zealand?
While it's still early days, the New Zealand-based retailers who are most threatened by the existence of Temu and its ilk are the brick-and-mortar stores that also sell very cheap things – except they have to pay rents and wages in New Zealand dollars. Kmart, The Warehouse and two dollar shops will have to be on the alert. "
FY23 Q3 Update a bit better than some were predicting?
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/411305
Total Group sales were $801.3 million in FY23 Q3, an increase of 3.8% on the same period in FY22.
• The Warehouse sales were $444.1 million, up 10.5% compared to the same period last year.
• Warehouse Stationery sales were $65.7 million, down 2.5% compared to the same period last year.
• Noel Leeming sales were $247.8 million, down 3.4% compared to the same period last year.
• Torpedo7 sales were $35.4 million, down 3.0% compared to the same period last year.
The Warehouse Group ended the third quarter showing some improvements in its trading performance, despite a challenging consumer environment.
The third quarter brought year to date sales to $2.6 billion, up 4.5% compared to the prior period year.
Group gross profit was $272.2 million in FY23 Q3, down 0.9% on prior period, resulting in $865.6 million gross profit year to date, down 1.0% compared to prior period year to date. Group gross profit margin was 34.0% in FY23 Q3, down 160 basis points compared to FY22 Q3, however an improvement on the gross profit margin of 32.7% reported in the half year.
Yes leftie a boomer update from WHS
No mention or groceries though
Noel Leeming sales Feb/April DOWN 3.4% on pcp ......compared to JB HiFi UP 10.8%
Not exactly same three month periods but jeez big difference
Get your act together Noel Leeming
NO (lemmings) Please !
close enough is good enough...
Not a disaster, No, but its unlikely to move the needle with analysts' estimates and at 18.1 times current year earnings and analysts already baking in a strong recovery in earnings in FY24, (which may or may not happen), to trade at 12 times FY24 earnings, an egregiously overpaid CEO and senior management team with highly questionable "The Market" strategies going forward and a board obsessed with all things ESG, I am happy for others to buy this if they think at the WHS they are getting a bargain. https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/THE-WAREHOUSE-GROUP-LIMIT-6491364/financials/
Cost of living: The Warehouse expands fresh produce trial to five new locations
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/cost-of-living-the-warehouse-expands-fresh-produce-trial-to-five-new-locations/5CM65LLQMZBNXA3DYC7C6HVBCQ/
".... the trial received 'very strong response from customers'."
Kmart and TheMarket are the 2 biggest risks to WHS as I see it.
Kill TheMarket.
Figure out how to compete vs Kmart
This won't help WHS growth aspirations. Noel Leeming been losing share the last year or so without this.
JB-Hifi eyes significant growth in New Zealand market
JB-Hifi is gearing up again to push heavily into the New Zealand market after a long dormant period.
The entertainment, electronics, and homewares retailer has planned to open 38 new stores in five years across the country, starting with a store in Hamilton at the end of this week.
The new store will be relocated from central Hamilton to the shopping precinct on the edge of the city, Te Awa, also known as The Base.
https://www.nbr.co.nz/retail/jb-hifi-eyes-significant-growth-in-new-zealand-market/
Interesting case study in what a good leader can do. JB poached, (or he jumped), the top guy from Noel Leeming and despite headwinds in the sector and constant store numbers, JB's profits went up and NL profits went down. Now JB's directors have the confidence for a major store expansion program despite continuing sector headwinds.
Could it be the latest "fad" in vinyl albums, not cheap and I'm sure they are not that expensive to make,even with limited manufacturers, must be helping their bottom line!
Punters starting to give WHS some love again
Up 15% from recent lows ...may even go back to 2 bucks
Bit of a wait for next update
This'll save a few bob
Declining number of shoppers so 3 stores to close and 90 jobs
Will help the bottom line .....and maybe speed up the path to ultimate demise?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/300933896/the-warehouse-looks-to-close-three-christchurch-stores
It should cut some costs.
I wonder though whether the closing of those 3 stores are "....because of a decline in customers."
in that particular centre; or
overall; or
a combination of both.
Either way I would prefer the company to improve rather than find their demise, :)
Its the last resort when you start the panic to close stores...
Full year tomorrow. They didn't provided any guidance so they'll not be wrong... on that. However; I think more stink is on the way. SP has been range bound in $1.6- 1.7, can't see that lasting either.
Adjusted Profit marginally better than covid hit year F20 but putting that aside worst year in last 15 if not this century
Well done Nick and team
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/419007/403923.pdf
WHS sales 4 times Briscoes sales
WHS profit less than ALF Briscoes
"Strong sales at The Warehouse in a challenging year" ...they left off "with reduced margins and 66% lower profit" from the headline.
66.6% lower profit, how biblical...
Online sales decreased 34.4%, resulting in online sales making up 6.3% of The Warehouse's total sales.
The Market and T7 neck and neck in loss making.
Outlook - 'soft sales' 'cautious'
$3.2 Billion in sales and they make less than 1% of that in Net Profit. Beyond pathetic.
Makes you wonder if it ever crossed their mind to put their prices up 2% lol...or better still by 6%, the inflation rate.
Currency will hurt them going forward as will expansion of K Mart.
The Board really need to step in because it is clear, as it has been for a while, that Nick has lost control of the business. Margins, NP, loss making T7, overblown capex and operating costs. They need to a fresh broom to clear out of all non-essential costs, including the snouts in the trough executive salaries and all of Nick's feel-good pet projects.
Incredible how they have trashed the business in such a short space of time.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Sep 28, 2023, 10:43 AMThe Board really need to step in because it is clear, as it has been for a while, that Nick has lost control of the business. Margins, NP, loss making T7, overblown capex and operating costs. They need to a fresh broom to clear out of all non-essential costs, including the snouts in the trough executive salaries and all of Nick's feel-good pet projects.
Incredible how they have trashed the business in such a short space of time.
Should never have taken Nick on in first place
But Joan thinks he's pretty good ...and don't forget the big bonus he gets if he hangs around for a few more years
The saving grace for holders is that they're still paying a dividend, 8% yield on the current share price.
Great the dividend covers this morning's losses but what about the next 364 days lol
Lot of old dead wood in the boardroom and senior management...like a mange infested dog riddled with parasites.
Quote from: Basil on Sep 28, 2023, 12:03 PMGreat the dividend covers this morning's losses but what about the next 364 days lol
Maybe that's when Nick's much touted, "integrated ecosystem" will kick in?
How's the market getting on?
Quote from: entrep on Sep 28, 2023, 01:09 PMHow's the market getting on?
Negative $22m in operating profit BUT customer numbers now at 1.3m, so all is well 8) 8) 8)
Just double both those numbers above and problem solved eh 😉
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/133024778/sanitarium-drops-weetbix-from-the-warehouse-blaming-supply-issues Hmmm
Analysts not impressed and very dubious of their ability to improve going forward. WOW Torpedo 7 also made a loss of $22m. Paywalled
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/warehouse-group-woes-worst-performing-retail-brand-revealed-how-it-will-recover/3YPR7A4R2VE7LEH4MDDHIQP56A/
Quote from: Basil on Sep 28, 2023, 04:51 PMJust double both those numbers above and problem solved eh 😉
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/133024778/sanitarium-drops-weetbix-from-the-warehouse-blaming-supply-issues Hmmm
Analysts not impressed and very dubious of their ability to improve going forward. WOW Torpedo 7 also made a loss of $22m. Paywalled
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/warehouse-group-woes-worst-performing-retail-brand-revealed-how-it-will-recover/3YPR7A4R2VE7LEH4MDDHIQP56A/
A plan to improve profitability and reduce costs in the business was under way, Grayston explained.
"We've now moved the Torpedo7 business into our agile operating unit within our central office..." Oh wow, really. So what's it come out of then, the clumsy and dull unit? It's just more of Grayston's dribbling.
Jettison the market, Torpedo 7 (total $44m losses), let half the management team go with their egregiously high salaries for such a pathetically performing company, price increases of 2% right across the board on everything and they'd be well on the way to making a satisfactory profit.
I see they wrote off the $3.5m 'investment' in Zoom Healthcare
Nick raved about how they were going to put Zoom Pharmacy into the ecosystem to make both great blah blah
Obviously didn't work out as planned ....but if a bugger
8.6 cps earnings. Put a no growth PE of 7.5 on that and that's 64.5 cps.
Just as well everything is going to come right in FY24 and FY25 eh ;)
Nick took a pay cut this year and only got $3.224m
That's 57 times what the median employee rem was
Some might say the group got more value out of a 'median' employee on $56k than Nick
Quote from: winner (n) on Sep 28, 2023, 07:37 PMNick took a pay cut this year and only got $3.224m
That's 57 times what the median employee rem was
Some might say the group got more value out of a 'median' employee on $56k than Nick
Really should have got rid of him years ago, his ideas are just egotistical self indulgence at this stage.
Not helped by the charity Sanitarium not selling them weetbix. This is going to be a good test for the new Supermarket regulator.
Basil ....$3.4 billion sales and generated no cash
Recast cash flow statement to show where it came and went it looks like this .....last years divies paid by selling a building it seems
Whatever worst thing is that on a day to day basis WHS didn't generate any free cash flow (negative $3m)
Anyway look at this ...excuse the formatting
Reported Operating Cash Flow $214m
Less lease/Rent payments. -$101m
Adjusted Operating Cash Flow $113m
Less Capex. -$116m
Gives Free Cash Flow $-$3m
Less Dividends paid. -$35m
Total Cash consumed. -$38m
Funded by sale of property $31m and $10m debt (with a little extra in petty cash tin)
Quote from: winner (n) on Sep 28, 2023, 07:37 PMNick took a pay cut this year and only got $3.224m
That's 57 times what the median employee rem was
Some might say the group got more value out of a 'median' employee on $56k than Nick
I lay the blame squarely at the weak board with people like Joan, clearly well past it and due for retirement and without any vision of how to restore shareholder returns. As usual WHS management and the board try and mask their pitiful performance behind a range of ESG initiatives to try and disguise their truly pathetic performance. Thye should never have renewed his contract and it's a real embarrassment to the board that Nick takes home more than 10% of company profit given his appalling performance. With this board and management its uninvestable unless you have a death wish for your capital.
Love Craigs' headline on their WHS research......Torpedoed.....lol.
Quote from: Minimoke on Sep 29, 2023, 06:44 AMNot helped by the charity Sanitarium not selling them weetbix. This is going to be a good test for the new Supermarket regulator.
Sanitarium's charity tax status riles me but that's beside the point. They have kept their powder dry in providing little comment to Nick's public ravings; the timing of which has provided a nice distraction from WHS dire full year result (probably just a coincidence that, eh.)
The alternative argument might well be that Warehouse did not have sufficiently robust supply contracts in place. They are the 'Johnny Come Lately' to this party (2021), I'd be putting my eggs (or Weetbix) in the basket of my long term retailers too. Afterall, Warehouse's grocery initiative has come and gone once already.
Nick's time might be better spent on crunching some numbers. Grocery is now nearly 20% of Warehouse sales. It's a notoriously low margin game and the Warehouse's pitch is that they're the cheapest. Just maybe this 'strategy' is driving the growing revenue but not profit quandary? Nick's case for grocery is always expressed about it being for the public good. The public good is not always good for business. Put it this way, I don't expect Kmart will be selling grocery anytime soon.
Good PR for WHS though - never shopped for groceries there but $1/pack cheaper than PNS and $3/pack cheaper than NW and now people know it.
WHS might have work out that people come in for $X in milk/butter/sh1tbix and other groceries, but also then spend $Y in other WHS junk.....
Quote from: Hectorplains on Sep 29, 2023, 12:01 PMSanitarium's charity tax status riles me but that's beside the point. They have kept their powder dry in providing little comment to Nick's public ravings; the timing of which has provided a nice distraction from WHS dire full year result (probably just a coincidence that, eh.)
The alternative argument might well be that Warehouse did not have sufficiently robust supply contracts in place. They are the 'Johnny Come Lately' to this party (2021), I'd be putting my eggs (or Weetbix) in the basket of my long term retailers too. Afterall, Warehouse's grocery initiative has come and gone once already.
Nick's time might be better spent on crunching some numbers. Grocery is now nearly 20% of Warehouse sales. It's a notoriously low margin game and the Warehouse's pitch is that they're the cheapest. Just maybe this 'strategy' is driving the growing revenue but not profit quandary? Nick's case for grocery is always expressed about it being for the public good. The public good is not always good for business. Put it this way, I don't expect Kmart will be selling grocery anytime soon.
Great post mate, I'm enjoying your regular contributions on here.
As you'll know Charitable Trusts are established with a Trust deed which sets out the purposes of the entity and those could be many and varied but given we're talking about stopping supply to the retailer who sells this staple at the cheapest price isn't there at least a moral obligation to keep supplying the little guy in the interests of the benefit of the general public? Doesn't seem very "charitable" to allow the incumbent duopoly to continue to price gouge kiwi consumers for such a basic staple. Weetbix are dry tasteless rubbish if you ask me but that's beside the point.
Agree 100% that this little storm in a teacup has interesting timing and looks rather contrived.
Quote from: Basil on Sep 29, 2023, 02:11 PMGreat post mate, I'm enjoying your regular contributions on here.
As you'll know Charitable Trusts are established with a Trust deed which sets out the purposes of the entity and those could be many and varied but given we're talking about stopping supply to the retailer who sells this staple at the cheapest price isn't there at least a moral obligation to keep supplying the little guy in the interests of the benefit of the general public? Doesn't seem very "charitable" to allow the incumbent duopoly to continue to price gouge kiwi consumers for such a basic staple. Weetbix are dry tasteless rubbish if you ask me but that's beside the point.
Agree 100% that this little storm in a teacup has interesting timing and looks rather contrived.
Thank you! True... althou history repeatedly and depressingly shows us that organised religion and moral obligation are often not good bedfellows. More preached than practiced, eh.
Quote from: Basil on Sep 29, 2023, 10:17 AMI lay the blame squarely at the weak board with people like Joan, clearly well past it and due for retirement and without any vision of how to restore shareholder returns. As usual WHS management and the board try and mask their pitiful performance behind a range of ESG initiatives to try and disguise their truly pathetic performance. Thye should never have renewed his contract and it's a real embarrassment to the board that Nick takes home more than 10% of company profit given his appalling performance. With this board and management its uninvestable unless you have a death wish for your capital.
I lost pretty much total interest in the Warehouse when they decided to go down the Living Wage route in 2019. Well done that union. Around 600 redundancies a year later. Gee. What a surprise.
Thought I might try to make a positive contribution to this thread. But honesty only got to page 3 and I get the Gender Equality stats, the 100% Coal Burner Fleet and $4m raised for the community.
Well done to the warehouse. Raising all that cash, tax free for the community. And then I look at net profit $30m. Seriously - they would be better off in the charity game.
Quote from: Minimoke on Sep 29, 2023, 04:08 PMSeriously - they would be better off in the charity game.
Hmmm, maybe Sanitarium could buy them out? If it's at a premium that'd be an act of charity towards holders.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Sep 29, 2023, 04:31 PMHmmm, maybe Sanitarium could buy them out? If it's at a premium that'd be an act of charity towards holders.
Might not be necessary to succumb to the bad ones - Nick would make a great Bishop - just look at the other self appointed guy.
The warehouse could turn into a charity like Sanitarium ... and than they could get their respective lords to sort this issue out. That's the way humanity resolved its conflicts for millenia, didn't we?
Quote from: Sideshow Bob on Sep 29, 2023, 02:01 PMGood PR for WHS though - never shopped for groceries there but $1/pack cheaper than PNS and $3/pack cheaper than NW and now people know it.
WHS might have work out that people come in for $X in milk/butter/sh1tbix and other groceries, but also then spend $Y in other WHS junk.....
Pretty sure that is their plan/hope and maybe it has worked, with increase in sales as mentioned above
So groceries 18.7% of Red Shed sales and grocery sales up 26.1% on pcp
Says grocery sales grew from $280m to $353 in F23 (and accounted for 44% of the Red Sheds sales growth)
Grocery dept surely is 'going from strength to strength'
There's a slide head up THE ROADMAP TO NET ZERO
hope that's not the profit guidance
Quote from: winner (n) on Oct 01, 2023, 01:37 PMThere's a slide head up THE ROADMAP TO NET ZERO
hope that's not the profit guidance
Page 6 too.
That's ahead of the sacred "Our Integrated Ecosystem" on p13.
"FY24 Outlook" finally pops up at...p30...although without actually bothering to give profit guidance.
Priorities, eh
c) Nick would probably stand there pondering, if the Camel lifts the boy straight up does that mean this somehow fits into my vertically integrated ecosystem?
Quote from: Minimoke on Sep 29, 2023, 04:08 PMI lost pretty much total interest in the Warehouse when they decided to go down the Living Wage route in 2019. Well done that union. Around 600 redundancies a year later. Gee. What a surprise.
Thought I might try to make a positive contribution to this thread. But honesty only got to page 3 and I get the Gender Equality stats, the 100% Coal Burner Fleet and $4m raised for the community.
Well done to the warehouse. Raising all that cash, tax free for the community. And then I look at net profit $30m. Seriously - they would be better off in the charity game.
Well now we know the cool thing is that if you do some shopping at the WHS, with less than a net 1% margin on all sales, they basically are a charity + 1% so if you are buying on sale it's probably below their total cost including cost of doing business. The other day I bought a 2 Terabyte USB drive for only $119 on sale down from $159, probably below cost. It was certainly a lot cheaper than anywhere else.
We need to support this charity so it can continue to do its good work ;)
Nick reckons things are going to be better in FY24 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/markets-with-madison-retail-recession-costs-and-crime-crushing-profits/D7BAD5AFPJCYDCWBMCAIQHJMHQ/?lid=9b9lf1vy47fv&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=nzh_email&utm_campaign=News_Direct_Business_Headlines&uuid=ae2dd95d629344ca8119b12a0d7d7338
Quote from: Basil on Oct 02, 2023, 09:16 AMWell now we know the cool thing is that if you do some shopping at the WHS, with less than a net 1% margin on all sales, they basically are a charity + 1% so if you are buying on sale it's probably below their total cost including cost of doing business. The other day I bought a 2 Terabyte USB drive for only $119 on sale down from $159, probably below cost. It was certainly a lot cheaper than anywhere else.
We need to support this charity so it can continue to do its good work ;)
Nick reckons things are going to be better in FY24 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/markets-with-madison-retail-recession-costs-and-crime-crushing-profits/D7BAD5AFPJCYDCWBMCAIQHJMHQ/?lid=9b9lf1vy47fv&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=nzh_email&utm_campaign=News_Direct_Business_Headlines&uuid=ae2dd95d629344ca8119b12a0d7d7338
3 'C (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toSm_flWhyE&ab_channel=SesameStreet)' words, eh. I can think of at least one other...No not that one! More, the timbre of Herald business reporting is...challenging.
Meanwhile Forber today gave the Warehouse result as "disappointing." As in D for disappointing, if you like...
Quote from: Basil on Oct 02, 2023, 09:16 AMWell now we know the cool thing is that if you do some shopping at the WHS, with less than a net 1% margin on all sales, they basically are a charity + 1% so if you are buying on sale it's probably below their total cost including cost of doing business. The other day I bought a 2 Terabyte USB drive for only $119 on sale down from $159, probably below cost. It was certainly a lot cheaper than anywhere else.
We need to support this charity so it can continue to do its good work ;)
Nick reckons things are going to be better in FY24 https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/markets-with-madison-retail-recession-costs-and-crime-crushing-profits/D7BAD5AFPJCYDCWBMCAIQHJMHQ/?lid=9b9lf1vy47fv&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=nzh_email&utm_campaign=News_Direct_Business_Headlines&uuid=ae2dd95d629344ca8119b12a0d7d7338
The Warehouse advertising toys from $1.
That's cheaper than the $2 stores (which should be $3 stores these days).
Quote from: Onemootpoint on Oct 03, 2023, 01:14 AMThe Warehouse advertising toys from $1.
That's cheaper than the $2 stores (which should be $3 stores these days).
WOW ! if ESG is top of the agenda for shareholders they should be very proud of that charitable work.
In other news a happy ending to Weetbix-gate but only after Com-Com got involved https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/weet-bixgate-sanitarium-backs-down-after-furore-with-the-warehouse/Q4R4IJDCAVADPKBEX6PZKG6X64/
Maybe its time to send the CEO and directors of that company off to a different Sanitarium for a while ;)
Quote from: Basil on Oct 03, 2023, 10:03 AMWOW ! if ESG is top of the agenda for shareholders they should be very proud of that charitable work.
In other news a happy ending to Weetbix-gate but only after Com-Com got involved https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/weet-bixgate-sanitarium-backs-down-after-furore-with-the-warehouse/Q4R4IJDCAVADPKBEX6PZKG6X64/
Maybe its time to send the CEO and directors of that company off to a different Sanitarium for a while ;)
"The Warehouse a few weeks ago accepted Sanitarium's offer of other "value price breakfast cereals" for its customers." Naughty of narky Nick not to have disclosed that.
Weetbix-Gate worked a treat for him eh, great smokescreen to take attention off their dreadful performance.
I see in that link I posted @ #319 Mr Disingenuous disclosed he'd curtailed 320 head office roles.
Breathtaking....gives a valuable insight into how bloated this company had become.
Interesting that K Mart are kicking some serious performance goals at the same time WHS performance crumbles.
Part of The Warehouse strategy is stoking up online hate (https://www.instagram.com/p/CxuB2g4vKg4/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=47bc83b0-33db-47c7-9d91-d2b390e67e52) for Sanitarium.
However; Sanitarium have folded, so maybe behaving like a slighted 13 year old school girl is the way forward in contract negotiations?
Hmmm...interesting, thanks for sharing.
Not sure all the analysts will have crunched their numbers yet but at this point the consensus for FY24 is 12 cps and FY25 17 cps. https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/THE-WAREHOUSE-GROUP-LIMIT-6491364/finances/
Nobody in their right mind would think this is a growth company so if we apply a no growth PE of 7.5 (Ben Graham 8.5 but that's when the risk free rate is 4% and we're at close to 5.5% now), to FY25's numbers assuming that's some sort of new normal once we're through this cost of living crisis that suggests fair value of 7.5 x 17 = $1.27.
Obviously Mr Market thinks they can recover earnings more strongly in FY26 and beyond, but I'm strongly disinclined to agree with the present board and CEO. I don't think there's any cohesive plan to stem the losses at Torpedo 7, Noel Leeming is likely to stay in the doldrums for a very long time as all the white and brownware bought during Covid lasts many years before it needs replacing and the Market continues to eat its head off with losses.
Meanwhile K Mark and Costco et al continue to expand and eat WHS lunch for them.
A friend says I should never hate on stocks and simply watch and wait for an opportunity, but I don't see any sign of one here in the foreseeable future. Maybe it if tanked to under $1 where it arguably deserves to be...
Quote from: Hectorplains on Oct 03, 2023, 12:05 PMPart of The Warehouse strategy is stoking up online hate (https://www.instagram.com/p/CxuB2g4vKg4/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=47bc83b0-33db-47c7-9d91-d2b390e67e52) for Sanitarium.
However; Sanitarium have folded, so maybe behaving like a slighted 13 year old school girl is the way forward in contract negotiations?
Having a strong vein of scottish blood flowing through me I'm quite content with the Pams 1.2kg Wheat Biscuits for $6.09 at pak n save. So warehouse aint out of the woods yet!
Nick buying more shares
Usually a bad sign ....share price seems to fall when he buys
Wasn't that long ago he bough Basil's shares at over 4 bucks lol
Quote from: winner (n) on Oct 04, 2023, 12:25 PMNick buying more shares
Usually a bad sign ....share price seems to fall when he buys
Wasn't that long ago he bough Basil's shares at over 4 bucks lol
Less than a weeks wages worth for him.
That's telling them Nick ....go on get heavy with them
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/grocery-council-says-foodstuffs-hopeful-merger-has-been-talked-about-for-years/Z7WBNLZHB5GYFI4C7MPHWG22H4/?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Wednesday+8+November+2023
Anchor tenants in the Mall (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/the-warehouse-group-to-close-28-year-old-milford-store-on-aucklands-north-shore/GH4ZQXT4HFBU5K6KAFK2OPT6D4/) but can't close out a deal to renew their lease?! Poor old The Warehouse are not the right fit as neighbours for the luxury living set?
"The world's biggest holiday shopping bonanza, Singles Day, or 11/11, peaks today. The commercial shopping event similar to back-to-school sales, Black Friday and Cyber Monday in the US features major discounts from China's retail giants like Alibaba and JD.com. But all indications are that sales are muted sales in this year's spending spree. Which is why Hong Kong and Shanghai stock markets ended the week on a downer."
https://www.interest.co.nz/economy/125183/us-eyes-cpi-and-inflation-expectations-apec-meeting-between-biden-and-xi-confirmed
Warehouse not only ones moving out due to increased rent in Milford Mall.Even if you didn't shop at the Warehouse, it created foot traffic which all malls need.
Quote from: 777 on Nov 12, 2023, 04:15 AMWarehouse not only ones moving out due to increased rent in Milford Mall.Even if you didn't shop at the Warehouse, it created foot traffic which all malls need.
I guess a gym creates a different kind of ... foot traffic ba dum tss! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRs0OqV4uSc&ab_channel=Impostor)
28 years and WHS wanted to stay. As the Herald observes: "The mall from which The Warehouse Milford trades is owned by Mark Gunton's NZ Retail Property Group, which also owns the popular Westgate
where giant American retailer Costco Wholesale has traded from since last year." Yes, rents are rising (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/496780/rents-rising-for-commercial-property-in-auckland#:~:text=Property%20manager%20firm%20JLL%20said,showing%20rental%20growth%2C%20it%20said.) the new benchmark in Auckland is $5500 per square metre for top prime luxury retail. JLL NZ head of research Gavin Read said in Auckland's retail market. "For luxury retailers, size becomes a key consideration, with units in excess of 200 square metres (sqm) proving popular.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/421567
What a mess. Torpedo 7 sales down 25%. Warehouse down 5%. No mention of Marketplace in all this.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Nov 14, 2023, 09:46 AMhttps://www.nzx.com/announcements/421567
What a mess. Torpedo 7 sales down 25%. Warehouse down 5%. No mention of Marketplace in all this.
Keep it secret ........ they never show the balancing number to make it all add up but note that "Total Group sales includes TheMarket, eliminations and other Group operations in addition to the 4 main retail operations detailed above."
This year the number was $2.5m v $9.2m last year
Must mean something ...hmmmm
Quote from: Hectorplains on Nov 14, 2023, 09:46 AMhttps://www.nzx.com/announcements/421567
What a mess. Torpedo 7 sales down 25%. Warehouse down 5%. No mention of Marketplace in all this.
Groceries up. ... . Means rest of Red Sheds sales down 8%
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 14, 2023, 10:07 AMGroceries up. ... . Means rest of Red Sheds sales down 8%
Off course the rest of Red Shed sales are down.
Groceries taking up valuable higher margin space.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Nov 14, 2023, 09:46 AMhttps://www.nzx.com/announcements/421567
What a mess. Torpedo 7 sales down 25%. Warehouse down 5%. No mention of Marketplace in all this.
To be fair - FY2022 Q1 (coming out of Covid) was an extraordinary quarter and always difficult to repeat. On the other hand - 6% down and another 6% eaten by inflation - means that they are in real sells something like 12 % down. Not easy to compensate for that with increasing margins.
Was yesterday in a Warehouse to buy some stationary - and the shelfs in the stationary section looked pretty deserted - sure, they did have some stuff I didn't needed (like some "arty" papers), but hardly anything of the stuff I was after (like e.g. C4 envelopes and waterresistent markers). Funny - the same thing happened to me last year in the Warehouse as well, maybe they want to send me a message?
"Warehouse - where everybody leaves empty handed"?
I guess they just need to find a way to make money with this new sales strategy :) ;
Quote from: lorraina on Nov 14, 2023, 10:14 AMOff course the rest of Red Shed sales are down.
Groceries taking up valuable higher margin space.
Good point - and I guess so do the shelves coming from the blue sheds which they squeezed into their red sheds.
I think they have a huge problem with Torpedo 7. Anyone that wanted a new bike did so during the pandemic and now we have a cost of living crisis (instead of a flood of printed money) this goes from bad to worse.
Agree sales decline needs to be considered in light of inflation running at 5-6% so in real terms well down.
One only needs to look at how K Mart are rapidly expanding and making really serious money from sales that from memory are only about a third of WHS level to know there are deep systemic issues not only facing WHS from external sources such as increased competition, but from within the company as well.
I agree with BP that their stores look understocked in many areas. I think WHS has a massive problem with their retail footprint being too big. The Milford store closure thing the other day is just as likely them simply not wanting to pay current market rent rather than the dog and pony show they put on about how disappointed they were blah, blah, blah.
Analysts starting to doubt their strategy too and "unfriend" the stock. I can see this being booted out of the NZX50 sometime in the foreseeable future, possibly in 2024, (probably survive the next assessment point on 2 December).
What the CEO of this woefully underperforming company is paid is a bloody disgrace.
Disc: Pleased to be out and have some good coin in the tin from my time as a shareholder. Not interested in investing in them again.
They're in systemic decline in my opinion.
3 step plan to Warehouse recovery:
1. Fire the CEO.
2. Sell Torpedo7.
3. Shutdown TheMarket.
Quote from: entrep on Nov 14, 2023, 11:04 AM3 step plan to Warehouse recovery:
1. Fire the CEO.
2. Sell Torpedo7.
3. Shutdown TheMarket.
Strong plan for the first three days. What will you do on Thursday and Friday of your first week?
If I was a shareholder you would have my vote.
Quote from: entrep on Nov 14, 2023, 11:04 AM3 step plan to Warehouse recovery:
1. Fire the CEO.
2. Sell Torpedo7.
3. Shutdown TheMarket.
No 1 easy done
Nick is hugely expensive and utterly useless. We should replace him with AI and give that money to the REAL workers who run the companies and keep them profitable.
Day 4. I'd make everyone on more than $100K reapply for their job again and you'd probably find half them are twiddling their thumbs doing very little.
DAY 5. Get rid of all the dead wood on the board.
That is a solid first week.
Quote from: Basil on Nov 14, 2023, 01:44 PMDay 4. I'd make everyone on more than $100K reapply for their job again and you'd probably find half them are twiddling their thumbs doing very little.
DAY 5. Get rid of all the dead wood on the board.
Very challenging times Basil so be kind and supportive
Joan Withers can stay ....she's pretty good as Chair ...
......and the only one of the board who doesn't seem to buy their clothes at a Red Shed
She probably led the change on extending Nick's employment contract for several more years. Well and truly past "best before" date in my opinion.
NAA - fire the lot and ditch the board.....
shes a gonna ... sinking ship.. down by the bow... and pumping water.
I agree that the future is not bright. Have not been to the warehouse for some time. Was very surprised at new layout and lack of customers in our local store. There was more staff than customers. Across the road at K mart was a very different storey with I would say over 100 customers. Looked well set out and a very different vibe.
I see in FB latest note they have underperform at $1.55
Quote from: Waltzing on Nov 14, 2023, 06:24 PMNAA - fire the lot and ditch the board.....
shes a gonna ... sinking ship.. down by the bow... and pumping water.
Titanic.
Actually in some small country towns in the waikato where there is a Red Shed it will still get some shoppers else its a 20 to 50 minute drive to a bigger retailer in central hamilton.
The only other option being M 10 stores....
Traffic volumes yesterday on the expressway south of hamilton looked liked Auckland at 4,30 PM.
There is a population incease occuring in the central Waikato and often the RED shed and M10 are the only stores for 10 of miles around.
Te Kuiti a good case in point. WHS is the biggest store in town by a country mile! Yes they will continue to have a presence but bring up a 20 year chart and you'll see they've been in systemic decline for ages and that looks set to continue.
Went to a large Warehouse yesterday for bedding for a spare room. Great value.
However, my better half who is, and always has been, a dedicated clothes buyer heard that they were just sticking the 40% black Friday labels on all clothes. So off she went. Now this is a women who rarely leaves a clothes shop without a purchase :-\ and sometimes bought from The Warehouse in the old days (7 or 8 years ago). She returned appalled at the state of the design and quality on show. "They really do need a new clothes buyer" she said "it's got worse and worse recently". And this is from a women who is a successful designer and retailer herself and has a good eye for clothes.
The real problem is that nobody with any real skill aspires to work at the Warehouse any more.
SML and PEB possibly booted off NZX50 soon
Probably a lucky escape for WHS ...maybe next to go next year
Jeez, it's raining so I watching the ASM
What a dismal affair .....even more dismal than the most dismal funeral
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 24, 2023, 10:54 AMJeez, it's raining so I watching the ASM
What a dismal affair .....even more dismal than the most dismal funeral
Learn anything new from your grueling experience ?
Quote from: Basil on Nov 24, 2023, 04:22 PMLearn anything new from your grueling experience ?
Just confirmed how hopeless Joan and Nick are.
Didn't watch much of theirvp speeches but heck they made of meal of answering questions
Questions were mainly about piss poor customer experiences and standard answer we'll take that on board.
Hell bent on this Market Club thing (not The Market) and poor Nick didn't understand that not every one has a smart phone to down load the app ......and not only oldies
And The Market staying ...when asked when they giving up on it Nick said it's coming right
Desperation crept in at times ....future looks bleak I reckon
Quote from: Basil on Nov 24, 2023, 04:22 PMLearn anything new from your grueling experience ?
Two hours apparently. This from Businessdesk raised my eyebrow:
The Warehouse also expects TheMarket loss to be less than $5m in the 2024 financial year – which Grayston said was down from $16m in the first half of the 2023 financial year. He told BusinessDesk after the meeting that TheMarket wouldn't be getting the Torpedo 7 treatment even if its loss was wider than expected as TheMarket was a "very different scenario". Nor is The Warehouse interested in buying online grocer Supie, which recently went bust. "We've seen it's a business model that hasn't succeeded," he said.Nick can't see the glaring contradictions in what he's saying? I doubt the numbers he's putting forward too. Temu is absolutely blitzing TheMarket, and it only launched here 8 months ago. That's before you even consider Wish, AliExpress, Shein et al.
did anyone short this dxx....
Quote from: Hectorplains on Nov 24, 2023, 05:24 PMTwo hours apparently. This from Businessdesk raised my eyebrow:
The Warehouse also expects TheMarket loss to be less than $5m in the 2024 financial year – which Grayston said was down from $16m in the first half of the 2023 financial year. He told BusinessDesk after the meeting that TheMarket wouldn't be getting the Torpedo 7 treatment even if its loss was wider than expected as TheMarket was a "very different scenario". Nor is The Warehouse interested in buying online grocer Supie, which recently went bust. "We've seen it's a business model that hasn't succeeded," he said.
Nick can't see the glaring contradictions in what he's saying? I doubt the numbers he's putting forward too. Temu is absolutely blitzing TheMarket, and it only launched here 8 months ago. That's before you even consider Wish, AliExpress, Shein et al.
But he's paid $3m+ to have special insights. AI would do a far better job. You can't turn the ship around if there's no effective rudder. Enough said.
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 24, 2023, 05:23 PMJust confirmed how hopeless Joan and Nick are.
Didn't watch much of theirvp speeches but heck they made of meal of answering questions
Questions were mainly about piss poor customer experiences and standard answer we'll take that on board.
Hell bent on this Market Club thing (not The Market) and poor Nick didn't understand that not every one has a smart phone to down load the app ......and not only oldies
And The Market staying ...when asked when they giving up on it Nick said it's coming right
Desperation crept in at times ....future looks bleak I reckon
Agree 100%. On a forward PE of 14 and no credible plan to rebuild. Losses at torpedo 7 are going to be heinous this year. Hmmmm...could this be the next one to exit the NZX50 sometime in 2024 ?
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 24, 2023, 05:23 PMJust confirmed how hopeless Joan and Nick are.
Didn't watch much of theirvp speeches but heck they made of meal of answering questions
Questions were mainly about piss poor customer experiences and standard answer we'll take that on board.
Hell bent on this Market Club thing (not The Market) and poor Nick didn't understand that not every one has a smart phone to down load the app ......and not only oldies
And The Market staying ...when asked when they giving up on it Nick said it's coming right
Desperation crept in at times ....future looks bleak I reckon
I have found myself a member of the market.
However I do not use a cell phone.
My Nescafe is $8 per 180 gm jar,but $7 using the market code on a cell phone.
I have cards for New World and Countdown,however no The Market cards available.
Therefore another disappointed customer.
What's the saying in retail; Give the customer what they want, and you will get what you want.
WHS will not be getting much of what they want from me.
Quote from: lorraina on Nov 24, 2023, 06:37 PMI have found myself a member of the market.
However I do not use a cell phone.
My Nescafe is $8 per 180 gm jar,but $7 using the market code on a cell phone.
I have cards for New World and Countdown,however no The Market cards available.
Therefore another disappointed customer.
What's the saying in retail; Give the customer what they want, and you will get what you want.
WHS will not be getting much of what they want from me.
Back to Pak'n Save.No cards,but great prices.I get what I want there too.
I've also started going to Pak n Save after getting sick of my local New World fleecing me like a sheep with their outrageous prices. The price difference is remarkable. Gosh, Pak and Save are so incredibly busy. So many people can't all be wrong and as you say, you get what you want there at fair prices without all the mumbo jumbo of being a member and dicking around with so called loyalty cards that are supposed to reward you, but in New World's case simply reward the local store owner. I can't be bothered shopping for groceries at WHS anymore, its simply not worth my time going out of my way for the very limited range they have and then having to go elsewhere for the bulk of the shop.
Quote from: Basil on Nov 24, 2023, 06:45 PMI've also started going to Pak n Save after getting sick of my local New World fleecing me like a sheep with their outrageous prices. The price difference is remarkable. Gosh, Pak and Save are so incredibly busy. So many people can't all be wrong and as you say, you get what you want there at fair prices without all the mumbo jumbo of being a member and dicking around with so called loyalty cards that are supposed to reward you, but in New World's case simply reward the local store owner. I can't be bothered shopping for groceries at WHS anymore, its simply not worth my time going out of my way for the very limited range they have and then having to go elsewhere for the bulk of the shop.
You should try living rurally and the joy of Four Square pricing. They offer so much more than mere fleecing, more like a full hung and gutting.
Multiple shop runs reminds me of my Mum, back in the day, clipping 'specials' supermarket coupons from the newspaper. She'd then spend the best part of a day traversing each one to get the cheapest grocery shop. She refused to listen to any logic around her time being money.
I thought the dynamic duos plans for Torp7 were weak; "reducing excess inventory and closing poor-performing stores." It's a start I suppose but it poses a whole lot more questions too like:
How much of this "excess" stock are they carrying? (Obviously plenty if it's an issue)
Why have they not controlled stock levels?
What is their leasing situation and how quickly can they wriggle out of locations that aren't working?
What benefit is there in Torp7 operating as an independent business to the Warehouse?
Very good questions HP. Someone on the other channel I know is in the industry reckons they went on an orgy of new TP7 lease signings with the Covid spending splurge, (if you didn't buy a bike to deal with the covid prison sentences you're unlikely to now), on the expectation that new level of spend, money printing and all, was the new normal. It would seem Nick has very limited insights despite claiming otherwise.
As you suggest, it really does beg the question of why have separate stores for TP7? I can see the day they start a whole new program of store within a store for TP7 gear and then try and claim they're marvelous operators driving new efficiencies in their omni channel operations ::)
We have a "super value" just up the road from us...a misleading name if ever there was one! Get a really big chest freezer and make a trip once a month to a proper supermarket. That'[s what we do and then treat the New World as a place for milk, bread and other regular perishable staples.
LOL - we operate two huge freezers and two fridges. Within the thriving metropolis of opportunity and culture that is Gisborne is the nearest supermarket and that's a 5 hour round trip. And I count every minute until we leave...
Nick says there are more details of the great Torpedo turn around (some say that's what sunk Scorpion but I digress...) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Scorpion_(SSN-589)) to come later. Surely, if it were not for his blinding "ecosystem" vision they'd have put this pup up for rehoming?
My frustration with shopping at Torp7, is that they're stocking some premium brands but across such a range of categories that they don't have the sales staff with the necessary knowledge to have the level of conversation that those customers bring to store. Yet their prices are no better than specialist category shops. If I was buying a high end bike I'd go to somewhere like Scotty Browns (https://scottybrowns.com/) where the technical expertise and advise is part of the package. They will answer all my questions and be able to recommend specific items based on my requirements. They'll also make me a decent coffee and the whole thing is an enjoyable experience.
Similarly; their other lower end, beginners level stock is priced higher than everywhere elsewhere. So nobody thinks, my kid needs a bike lets go to Torp7.
Torp7 made some sense a decade ago as an online store that undercut the specialist physical ones.
I think Nick is blinded by his own vision. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXuvn74FMo8)
I think being a WHS shareholder is analogous to being on board a decrepit old rudderless ship on a journey to nowhere with high explosive torpedo's onboard that could go off at any time. Very happy to leave that experience to others.
Regarding TP7 I was talking to Jimbo the other week and we derived an action plan if we were in charge of the WHS. From most preferred to least preferred.
1) Hari Kari.
2) Should no appropriate blade be available, flog it off for f'all to an Australian turnaround specialist like Anchorage or Allegro, or trade player (the later who are unlikely to be interested)
should that fail
(for context - Will have a mixture of BARELY acceptable, moderately loss making, and massively loss making stores)
* Fire nick, replace much of the Board (it happened on their watch)
* Run down the leases on the marginal stores and try hard to exit w/ penalty the big f ups
* Expand into grocery on the leases where they cant get out of
* Keep it as an online store, keep any profitable stores (?), liquidate the rest
* Blame the last CEO
* Continue the WHS' proud track record of keeping these costs as one off restructuring costs below the line.
That's just re TP7.
Nick prob hassling his teams to use AI to get sales moving
My mate Tom sums it up in his latest cartoon
Gartner renowned for their insights had Generative AI in its most recent Hype Cycle as being on the "Peak of Inflated Expectations."
In Gartner's Hype Cycle model, the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" is followed by the "Trough of Disillusionment."
But Nick will persevere with AI
IMG_5626.jpeg
Quote from: winner (n) on Jan 30, 2024, 12:22 PMNick prob hassling his teams to use AI to get sales moving
My mate Tom sums it up in his latest cartoon
Gartner renowned for their insights had Generative AI in its most recent Hype Cycle as being on the "Peak of Inflated Expectations."
In Gartner's Hype Cycle model, the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" is followed by the "Trough of Disillusionment."
But Nick will persevere with AI
IMG_5626.jpeg
Oh, I thought it was cheap eggs. Cheap eggs, A1...Potato, potahto...
Meanwhile, T7 still have delays in getting orders out. 7 days for small, up to 25 days for large products. https://www.torpedo7.co.nz/
Omnishambles.....
I have an outlandish theory id like to share before whs comes clean on how bad the last quarter has been.
There are a couple of reddit threads outlining just how bad things have gotten internally. I also think T7 is about to catastrophically implode.
https://nz.trustpilot.com/review/torpedo7.co.nz.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/350126410/warehouse-groups-problem-child-torpedo7
https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1agsbfw/wtf_torpedo_7/?share_id=nTP14tyJu7SPoQFm8ZEJA&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1
Also look through the facebook group "NZ Fun Adventures Camping" . most of their tents are being refunded from this summer
Looking through the July accounts I think WHS is on a knifes edge. $400m of equity which is essentially the following in terms of net assets
$100m Clear inventory (inventories - trade creditors)
$220m Fixed assets ($60m of buildings, $160m of fitouts, software etc)
$90m deferred taxation
Now, I believe T7 based on anecdotal evidence could have lost $25m in the last 6 months, and based on their 1st quarter update I wouldn't be surprised to see total WHS down 10% turnover h1. WHich could mean a total loss for the group of approx $50m for the first 6 months.
If I'm remotely close that means the warehouse group is dangerously close to being insolvent. I also believe they will be in breach of a bunch of covenants (they had $76m of borrowings, presumably secured against their buildings).
Why did they sell their royal oak property in July 2023 for a measly $400k profit? they would have tied themselves up in a leaseback scenario that would gobble up that $400k pretty quickly. Is that the actions of a stable company?
They havent released a trading update for the first time in 5 years.....
I think they are desperately scrambling in the background lining up
1) PR
2) Banking issues
3) Exit plan for T7
4) Cap raise
All you need to do is look at briscoes group and see that they have $300m of equity, with 3x as much profitability of a turnover base 25% as much as WHS.
Convince me i'm wrong!
If im missing something im all ears.
aye trouble in paradise eh thatguy
re group trading updates - they did one in early january for 2021-2023, but those were extraordinary periods with covid. their interim isn't until the end of january so pre covid they often didn't provide any q2 info until mid march as part of their half year. They didn't release one in 2020 until end of february. but given the pressure they have been under and TP7's woes I think it would be appropriate from a continuous disclosure perspective to provide an update. I suspect one will come before march, once the board has all its ducks in a row if trading continues to be an issue.
TP7 suffering as it changes its ERP system. I believe they are transitioning to the group Agile system? If so, that could be extremely problematic if they try to exit it as system separation will be immensely complex and time consuming - could take 6-12months in which case it could continue consume cash. They'd probably strike up a shared services arrangement with a prospective buyer (if they exist!) for 12-24 months but wouldn't be ideal from anyone's perspective.
I saw that Anchorage Capital - the Australian 'turnaround' specialist of Dick Smith fame - has set up a number of special purpose bid vehicles here in NZ. Probably looking at something in media, but wouldn't rule them out as wanting to takeover tp7 for free.
I haven't updated my WHS spreadsheets in quite a while so not as familiar with its recent trading as you.
But from a debt perspective I would have thought the banking syndicate will be laser focused on last twelve month trading EBITDA (pre ifrs 16) to net debt and its debt service coverage ratio (DSCR), as well as prospective forecasts.
Everything is okay because Nick will announce a whole new bunch of ESG, sustainability and agile initiatives and also announce all future press releases and publications with be in Te Reo. ;)
Welcome to the forum thatguy. Great first post. No argument from me.
I saw a three-legged half blind stray pig dog the other day that was riddled with mange and thought, someone needs to put that poor dog out of its misery. You could easily make the same case for WHS.
Hey Basil, I think Nick still has those shares you sold to him for $4.12 about 2 years ago
Jeez $1.58 is more than 60% down ...in 2 years
Pretty big drop in share price today ...close at $1.50
Seems to be the lowest it's been this century
Probably bad news coming out tomorrow
Nick probably chomping at the bit to buy more ;D... couldn't possibly go under $1...or maybe it could !
Yep, bad news coming for WHS shareholders I'm afraid. Truly astonishing value destruction that has taken place under Nick's "stewardship." Can't decide who is more culpable - Nick or the Board. They both need to be removed asap as WHS looks to be at the brink of total collapse. The next report is going to be a horror story, no doubt about it.
Group was in decline before Nick arrived
Red Sheds been losing share since the turn of the century ......Stationery never fired ......Noel Leeming has had it ups and down ...T7 a disaster .......and their online efforts never worked
And that's recent history post foray into Australia and their ambition of being a finance house.
Must update my 'history book' ....can learn a lot from watching non-performing businesses
And Red Sheds in particular generally dont do too well when in tough times
Panda Mart opened in the old Farmers store in Pakuranga.
Similar range of good to Warehouse, most likely cheaper and no shortage of people in there even a month to 6 weeks after opening, would be hurting Warehouse Pakuranga I would have thought.
Haven't seen so many people in the "mall" for ages - usually only went there, as lees crowded (understatement) than Sylvia Park, to Farmers or Warehouse and the Library
Quote from: winner (n) on Feb 08, 2024, 07:28 PMGroup was in decline before Nick arrived
Red Sheds been losing share since the turn of the century ......Stationery never fired ......Noel Leeming has had it ups and down ...T7 a disaster .......and their online efforts never worked
And that's recent history post foray into Australia and their ambition of being a finance house.
Must update my 'history book' ....can learn a lot from watching non-performing businesses
Might have been ok if one of the two supermarket chains took it over $ 7.00 ish from memory , but the other one took a 10%. Stake to block it . Then the comm comm declined it ?
I think that sort of behavior now would draw attention of the regulators . At least now they have had to pull the covenants on various properties that were put on to stop other operators .
Would make a great footprint if someone took it over and rebranded as a supermarket chain.....
Just saying!! ;)
"rebranded as a supermarket chain."
great idea...
no enough parking at some sites though.
Shocker result could see this heading under $1 and where's the plan to revive and revitalize it ?
Headed for an exit from the NZX50 ? Arguably one of the best shorts on the NZX for those who are into that sort of thing, (I'm not).
Can you actually short on the nzx??
Forsyth Barr have a facility on some shares through their subsidiary Leveraged Equities. Lots of terms, conditions and expensive fees last time I looked at it many years ago. Keep both eyes wide open !
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/about-40-tauranga-warehouse-staff-to-find-new-roles-as-cameron-rd-site-closes/GRCCBR7TG5G75P2DYOR56TO56U/
Well this does nothing to dissaude me from my theory.
The race continues between this and HGH to see who can get to $1 first. HGH made huge strides today but I reckon this could go into freefall when they announce their shocker first half result..
WHS been making huge strides down in the last couple of days and so far today, rapidly catching up to HGH.
Yesterday we found out WHS exits the small companies MSCI index at the end of this month.
Who would want to be a buyer knowing there's all that selling pressure coming this month as well as a shocker first half result in March. Then there's the possible exit from the NZX50 coming in due course as well. My goodness, this could get very ugly....
I reckon this is going under $1 before HGH, (the latter may or may not get there), but I am pretty sure this will.
Quote from: Basil on Feb 14, 2024, 02:59 PMWHS been making huge strides down in the last couple of days and so far today, rapidly catching up to HGH.
Yesterday we found out WHS exits the small companies MSCI index at the end of this month.
Who would want to be a buyer knowing there's all that selling pressure coming this month as well as a shocker first half result in March. Then there's the possible exit from the NZX50 coming in due course as well. My goodness, this could get very ugly....
I reckon this is going under $1 before HGH, (the latter may or may not get there), but I am pretty sure this will.
I reckon it's not just the plunging SP that Heartland and the Warehouse have in common.
They have both come unstuck by a management team that seemed determined to diversify even when the economic circumstances didn't stack up and looked risky. WHS has its Torpedo 7 / Noel Leeming millstones and I'm not convinced that Challenger won't be an entity too far for HGH. It strikes me that NZ's most successful business's seem to be the one's that don't stray too far from their core business. And they manage that business with a laser eye kept on costs (including managements' salaries) and margins. If they do expand it is done progressively, at the right time and with caution. Think Briscoe's, Hallensteins and Turners.
HGH have got a head start but my money is on WHS to get to $1 before they do. HGH are in a protracted slump but will ultimately weather the storm. I'm not so sure about WHS - they are in deep, deep trouble and could be next to issue a trading halt. Let's hope they'll do a Fletcher's and "retire" their CEO and Chairman.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Feb 14, 2024, 05:23 PMAnd they manage that business with a laser eye kept on costs (including managements' salaries)
Yes Nick and Jeff's multi million dollar salaries both look outrageous both in absolute nterms but especially in the context of their weakening share prices and financial performance.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Feb 14, 2024, 05:23 PMHGH have got a head start but my money is on WHS to get to $1 before they do. HGH are in a protracted slump but will ultimately weather the storm. I'm not so sure about WHS - they are in deep, deep trouble and could be next to issue a trading halt. Let's hope they'll do a Fletcher's and "retire" their CEO and Chairman.
Agreed. I doubt too many shareholders would be teary eyed if Nick and Joan headed off to the "golf course" together.
Ive been thinking about the cameron road sale, they have $60m of buildings on their books, no idea how many buildings make up this figure. How many others are for sale i wonder?
https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/premier-tenant-in-prominent-tauranga-property-43862
$961k of lease id hazard this went for approx $15-20m
So maybe $40-45m left?
https://www.realestate.co.nz/42355861/commercial/sale/the-warehouse-fraser-cove-shopping-centre-241-fraser-tauranga-central - Is this maybe owned by the group?
$2m lease id say this one could be worth $30m?
https://www.realestate.co.nz/42263893/commercial/sale/units-a-b-croftfield-lane-wairau-valley
( maybe this one too? Would explain why this hasnt moved into a warehouse)
The fact that they sold Royal oak on the 31 Jul 2023 to enable them to pay a dividend (only way they could have) and now another significant sale (where the council "saved millions")
They are selling off some of their "anchor" assets - surely these decisions are driven by the bank as I cant see any announcement by them to say they were getting out of these properties which i think would warrant some commentary?
If the bank is saying cashup - what happens once these cash assets are fully absorbed? Cap raise?
Cap raise will be a very very interesting thing to watch
The tindalls & pascoes own 68% between them, given Stephen is on the board he must be witnessing first hand the destruction of shareholder wealth playing out in front of him. The tindalls in the last 24 months have seen the erosion of their market value of their shares drop by $260m!!!
Between them they don't need a whole lot more % to eject grayston and the rest of the board.
What happens next??
Looking at my charts, it appears the last time WHS was this cheap purely by share price was...... 1995 :)
Even if you are generous and adjust for dividends you would have a 0% return having invested in 2000.
The Warehouse really had an excellent opportunity with its footprint to replicate the Costco model domestically and move to a approach that actually provided value for customers rather then the overpriced $2 shop it has become today.
Might be interesting as an punt one day, but not while they have management that really misunderstands WHS. It has the potential to be a simple well run profitable retailer but all those distracting subsidiaries and loss making adventures and weird management/operational decisions make it a little confusing.
On the bright side - as many boards seem to judge their performance by the share price hopefully this should wake them up and there could be a shake up :) Otherwise, good old Nick and his mates can keep shifting deck chairs on the Titanic.
T7 sold for $1
(https://www.nzx.com/announcements/426627"https://www.nzx.com/announcements/426627%5B/url")
https://www.jardendirect.co.nz/app/news/urn:dt:6620622
Nick's "brilliance" knows no bounds.
Quote from: Basil on Feb 22, 2024, 12:05 PMhttps://www.jardendirect.co.nz/app/news/urn:dt:6620622
Nick's "brilliance" knows no bounds.
Nick could claim it to be a "legacy issue" seeing he wasn't around when they acquired it
Legacy works wonders for some companies
More pain to come, I reckon.
Torpedoing Torpedo7 was necessary and overdue, but the real problem is that the source of much of WHS's problems are still there - namely Nick and the Board. They are still hell bent on wasting money on all manner of things, which means that the "core" business isn't in good shape either. As of now, WHS are a loss making organisation just like Torpedo7. What's next? Sell WHS for a $1 to focus on their core business of renumerating their CEO and Directors?
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Feb 22, 2024, 12:59 PMMore pain to come, I reckon.
Torpedoing Torpedo7 was necessary and overdue, but the real problem is that the source of much of WHS's problems are still there - namely Nick and the Board. They are still hell bent on wasting money on all manner of things, which means that the "core" business isn't in good shape either. As of now, WHS are a loss making organisation just like Torpedo7. What's next? Sell WHS for a $1 to focus on their core business of renumerating their CEO and Directors?
LOL...best post on here for ages...too funny LOL
Last $1 sale I remember was Stuff media - and it was all down hill for them ever since as they concentrated more on ESG than on news delivery.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Feb 22, 2024, 12:59 PMMore pain to come, I reckon.
Torpedoing Torpedo7 was necessary and overdue, but the real problem is that the source of much of WHS's problems are still there - namely Nick and the Board. They are still hell bent on wasting money on all manner of things, which means that the "core" business isn't in good shape either. As of now, WHS are a loss making organisation just like Torpedo7. What's next? Sell WHS for a $1 to focus on their core business of renumerating their CEO and Directors?
Good points - they really should have sold Nick and the board for $1. I suspect however, nobody would have offered that much money for them as they offered for Torpedo 7;
Clearly - WHS shareholders pulled the short straw ... as so often.
Hey Basil ...you nagging and Nick finally listened
WHS to sell or close down TheMarket.com
WHS appoint the Chair of My Food Bag Tony as a Director
Surprised they are paying a dividend considering what shocker of a result that is. How on earth does Nick keep his job? - they poured millions into TheMarket and now he just shrugs his shoulders and says "Oh, well, time to move on." What's next on the chopping block - Noel Leeming?
OK - I get it that the results are depressing and the outlook is quite unsettled. However, a bit tasteless to present on the slides for the financials (slide 16) as well as for the outlook (slide 26) happily laughing people, isn't it? A bit more somber photos might have been appropriate, unless the pictures are provided courtesy of the competition:
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/428233/415207.pdf
On a bit more uplifting note - good to see the turnover for groceries going up (to 20%), though not quite sure, whether this might be just a function of the increased footprint.
Sensible to see the market and Torpedo 7 as loss leaders go, but not sure how anybody could run down Torpedo 7 to basically naught value. Wondering, whether they let the right people go? What about the captain, who caused the problems in the first place?
Quote from: entrep on Nov 14, 2023, 11:04 AM3 step plan to Warehouse recovery:
1. Fire the CEO.
2. Sell Torpedo7.
3. Shutdown TheMarket.
Only one left and this might become a buy.
What a completely moronic CEO to have let TheMarket debacle carry on this long. We are anonymous posters on some forums who could tell it was a dud... this guy has all the data and still kept it running. What a joke.
Quote from: winner (n) on Mar 20, 2024, 08:40 AMHey Basil ...you nagging and Nick finally listened
For s second there I thought there was good news he had resigned. He should, the market has been a complete disaster for WHS, has burned through tens and tens of millions and it was all his idea.
The appointment of Tony Carter to the board in my opinion gives no comfort whatsoever.
Presentation here. Only very briefly skimmed over by me at this stage but I have noted the outlook for FY24 on page 28 which makes for sober reading. http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/428233/415207.pdf
The word ecosystem seems to have been dropped from their vocabulary
Quote from: Basil on Mar 20, 2024, 09:51 AMFor s second there I thought there was good news he had resigned. He should, the market has been a complete disaster for WHS, has burned through tens and tens of millions and it was all his idea.
The appointment of Tony Carter to the board in my opinion gives no comfort whatsoever.
Presentation here. Only very briefly skimmed over by me at this stage but I have noted the outlook for FY24 on page 28 which makes for sober reading. http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/428233/415207.pdf
Another abandoned baby up for fostering?
Not for me mate. Too many diapers to change on the abandoned babies I'm already fostering.
Not keen on opening an orphanage for abandoned babies from the NZX as I think I'd get overrun with numbers lol
Clare Capital did this interesting piece on Warehouse
A good and bad acquisition ...
The sale of Torpedo7 was recently announced for $1. This report examines Torpedo7 and Noel Leeming. Both companies were acquired by The Warehouse Group at a similar time for a similar price and resulted in quite different outcomes.
Noel Leeming (purchased for $73m) has achieved top-line growth, ongoing profitability, and a substantial increase in the estimated market value of the business. Torpedo7 (purchased for $53m) hasn't achieved the scale that was originally envisaged, and it continues to drain cash. The Warehouse's business model is low margin at scale – and Torpedo7 doesn't fit with this.
More detail
https://assets-global.website-files.com/63438c7fda79c9cd22c86dc8/65fb707bc7bab0a268165018_Clare%20Capital%20Tech%20Insights%20322%20-%20A%20Tale%20of%20Two%20Acquisitions%20-%2020240318.pdf
Nick having another whinge
Jeez Govt imposed price controls .....like he's determined to return NZ to the worst of the post-war era.
Really wants to lower prices he pays ...needs to 'deserve' the big discounts
Warehouse Group boss calls for grocery price controls
https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/350229324/warehouse-group-boss-calls-grocery-price-controls
JB Hi Fi just reported that NZ sales for Jan/Mar were up 18.3% on last year .......comparable were +2.9% with other growth from new stores
Hard to imagine Noel Leeming doing these sort of numbers
WHS apparently quarter sales tomorrow ...probably going to be a bit dismal but Nick will spin a good story
Q3 Update even more dismal than I envisaged
Things seem to be getting worse quarter to quarter
Fancy blaming floods and Gabrielle ...desperation
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/430882/418245.pdf
Quote from: winner (n) on May 10, 2024, 08:51 AMQ3 Update even more dismal than I envisaged
Things seem to be getting worse quarter to quarter
Fancy blaming floods and Gabrielle ...desperation
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/430882/418245.pdf
Yup, that's an absolute stinker. It'd be a surprise only to Nick that no one wanted to
buy the Market ::) The Warehouse is just not very good at selling stuff, including failed online omnichannels. Time to go, Nick?
The Warehouse seems to be in systemic decline where no part of the organisation is able to generate profits. Not when both sales volume and margins seem to be going down every quarter. The Board seem paralysed and Nick is way beyond his use-by-date. Basically un-investable at this point, and if dividends are suspended - as they may have to be - then sub $1 is on the cards.
UPDATE ON THEMARKET.COM
In March 2024, the Group shared our intention to sell or close TheMarket.com. Subsequently we have
engaged with a number of interested parties, however we now confirm TheMarket.com will close by
late June 2024
About $100m of shareholders funds down the toilet. Nick is an absolute "legend"
Agree its uninvestable and in due course an exit from the NZX50 is almost certain. Wonder how Nick feels about the shares he bought off me at $4.11 now ?
Surely this is worth less than $1. We need a FBU style clean out now. Nick and Joan are well and truly past their use by date and completely clueless how to stem the ongoing decline.
WHS closed at $1.20 less than half the $2.50 price they floated at in 1994, 30 years ago !
Quote from: Basil on May 13, 2024, 08:33 PMWHS closed at $1.20 less than half the $2.50 price they floated at in 1994, 30 years ago !
They a buy yet?
KW - you aren't allowed to play on this question 🤭
Quote from: Crackity on May 13, 2024, 09:04 PMThey a buy yet?
KW - you aren't allowed to play on this question 🤭
LOL mate. Better ask her I reckon.
In my previous post I suggested it's surely worth less that $1 now and then there's the almost inevitable NZX50 index exit still to come in due course. You could try a dead cat bounce on index exit trade..what could possibly go wrong lol
Interesting top 20, not a very open register if there was an activist or two around...
Pretty much a closed shop and they are very welcome to it. For mine, the WHS brand is in systemic decline.
Noel Leeming worth a normal retail multiple but is handicapped by hideously overpaid and inept management and a board totally bereft of any ideas on how to stem ongoing market share losses. The tens of millions Nick has organized to be paid to consultants over the years when he himself is paid millions per annum to have the good idea's is a total disgrace.
As for his gross recklessness with "the market" which has cost shareholders over $100m over the years...honestly, he simply has to go. This company is uninvestable until Nick and Joan are gone.
Quote from: Basil on May 16, 2024, 10:54 AMPretty much a closed shop and they are very welcome to it. For mine, the WHS brand is in systemic decline.
Noel Leeming worth a normal retail multiple but is handicapped by hideously overpaid and inept management and a board totally bereft of any ideas on how to stem ongoing market share losses. The tens of millions Nick has organized to be paid to consultants over the years when he himself is paid millions per annum to have the good idea's is a total disgrace.
As for his gross recklessness with "the market" which has cost shareholders over $100m over the years...honestly, he simply has to go. This company is uninvestable until Nick and Joan are gone.
Noel Leeming slowly but surely losing heaps of shares to JB Hi Fi ...and seem totally bereft of ideas to counter/compete
CEO has gone effective immediately.
The Warehouse Group (TWG) today announced that Nick Grayston will step down from his role as Group Chief Executive Officer, effective immediately.
TWG Chair Joan Withers said "Since 2016, Nick has led TWG through a period of significant change in the retail industry and I want to thank him for his commitment and contribution. His focus on sustainability, adopting Agile ways of working, navigating the challenges of Covid and initiating the significant and successful programme of critical infrastructure upgrades have been hallmarks of transformation of The Warehouse Group in the last five years."
"However, as we look to the future, we have agreed a change in direction is necessary for the Company and that it needs fresh energy to execute."
John Journee will take up the role of Interim CEO on 20 May 2024, while the Board undertakes a search for a new CEO. The Board has determined that, upon taking up his new role, John will cease to be an independent director but will continue as an executive director of TWG.
"John spent 15 years at TWG across a range of roles, including as CEO of Noel Leeming, and has been on the TWG Board since 2013. His experience and familiarity with TWG will be invaluable as we navigate this transition and begin our search for a new permanent CEO," says Mrs Withers.
Nick Grayston said it has been a privilege to lead The Warehouse Group and work alongside such a dedicated team.
"Leading The Warehouse Group has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my career. While it is the right time for me to step aside, I have every confidence in the talented team at The Warehouse Group to drive the business forward and I wish them the very best."
Mrs Withers said the Board and Executive team were committed to supporting the 10,000-strong team at The Warehouse Group in delivering value to shareholders and customers and getting the Group's strategic and financial performance back on track.
"Our team members, customers, shareholders and all Kiwi families are our inspiration and motivation as we focus on improving the performance of the core business. This transition marks a new chapter for TWG as we address our current challenges and seize the opportunities that lie ahead."
Grayson's involvement seemed to take the company backwards
QuoteCEO has gone effective immediately.
The Warehouse Group (TWG) today announced that Nick Grayston will step down from his role as Group Chief Executive Officer, effective immediately.
Thank goodness for that. Was driving past their head office on the North shore earlier this afternoon and thought to myself, nothing changes until that idiot goes. About $120m in total wasted on his moronic idea of a mini N.Z. version of Amazon. Now Joan, you know its time for you to go too...well and truly past your "best before" date
Finally! What an utter disaster Grayston has been. Just a pity the Board took so long to realise that he was completely out of his depth. Hopefully they will hire a no-nonsense CEO who will be able to turn the business around.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on May 17, 2024, 03:48 PMFinally! What an utter disaster Grayston has been. Just a pity the Board took so long to realise that he was completely out of his depth. Hopefully they will hire a no-nonsense CEO who will be able to turn the business around.
The Board should resign as well. They are as accountable as he is.
Quote from: Greekwatchdog on May 17, 2024, 03:51 PMThe Board should resign as well. They are as accountable as he is.
Couldn't agree more but at least they finally managed to have the balls to take out the garbage. Now do the decent thing and step aside too.
The incoming CEO has a massive job to sweep out huge amounts of other dead wood in the company. The vast amount of people in this poorly performing company earning more than quarter of a million dollars is disgraceful. They just bloody retailers for goodness sake.
Quote from: Basil on May 17, 2024, 04:00 PMCouldn't agree more but at least they finally managed to have the balls to take out the garbage. Now do the decent thing and step aside too.
The incoming CEO has a massive job to sweep out huge amounts of other dead wood in the company. The vast amount of people in this poorly performing company earning more than quarter of a million dollars is disgraceful. They just bloody retailers for goodness sake.
I guess the shareholders get to make that call soon enough.
Rather embarrassing position to find themselves in, since they now admit they got it wrong with Nik. The Asset bubble created by Covid has certainly taken some scalps in the boom and bust cycle.
Who's next to fall off the tree?
Same woke board that gave the Govt back ~ $60m in Covid wage subsidies, money they were perfectly entitled to keep but they were scared of Cindy telling them off. That money is now desperately needed to transform the company but its gone. Board are a bloody disgrace in more ways than one.
I still think its completely uninvestable and others are going to keep eating more and more of the WHS's market share. I think all brands go through a life cycle and the WHS as a brand is a super slow motion train wreck that's in terminal decline.
The problems I see is that they dabbled into too many areas without going all in.
Getting into Groceries was a waste of time and energy. If you going to tackle the incumbents to reduce prices then you have to go all in. Mucking around with staples didn't help and they took there eye off what they were good at selling.
As for The Market, that was an expensive flop.
They reduced staffing and forgot about service.
Retail landscape has changed. Cheap Briscoes takeover for mine. Drury must be rubbing his hands.
Otherwise the next CEO has a mammoth task to get this out of the gutter.
Quote from: entrep on Nov 14, 2023, 11:04 AM3 step plan to Warehouse recovery:
1. Fire the CEO.
2. Sell Torpedo7.
3. Shutdown TheMarket.
Nailed it. If only I could have got $2 million in consulting fees for that advice.
Taylor
Umbers
Greenslade
Pattison
Grayston
(Missed one or two?)
Whose next to join the list of losers?
Quote from: 850man on May 17, 2024, 03:40 PMGrayson's involvement seemed to take the company backwards
Apparently Nik's bio book comes out next veek. Available vrom Ze Varehouse. Ze title?
----------------
"From Superman to Super-man: A career destroying journey into enforced retirement"
Big pic of Nik on the cover. Comes packaged with a $6 carton of raw eggs. And a note that they may be 'aimed to please the target market'.
----------------
RB
Quote from: entrep on May 17, 2024, 04:40 PMNailed it. If only I could have got $2 million in consulting fees for that advice.
Might be missing 4. Complete board refresh.
Nick had the support of the board the whole time, he just looks like the sacrificial lamb for a bunch of people who promoted and allowed his empire building. Even looking at the new temp ceo, was a director of the market since the beginning and judging by his linkedin hasn't had a non board role for the last ~7 years. Not sure if they got the message yet? Also - Tony Carter?
In saying that if Torpedo 7 was -$20m EBIT for FY23 and the market similar, that would have been a 40% boost to the FY23 result so numbers might struggle to get much worse in the medium term.
Almost comical that the boards idea of a refresh is to bring in the aging Tony Cater of (among other very serious under-performers), FBU and AIR "fame". Never forget the time I bought up FBU's serial underperformance in discussions with him after an AIR AGM...he couldn't scoot off to get another cup of tea and get away from me fast enough.
Quote from: Gerald on May 17, 2024, 05:08 PMIn saying that if Torpedo 7 was -$20m EBIT for FY23 and the market similar, that would have been a 40% boost to the FY23 result so numbers might struggle to get much worse in the medium term.
I'm sure they'll find a way lol
Quote from: winner (n) on May 17, 2024, 04:52 PMTaylor
Umbers
Greenslade
Pattison
Grayston
(Missed one or two?)
Whose next to join the list of losers?
Losers is a little harsh W69. Some were forced to go thru lack of performance, others have decided to leave. Just because Share prices are depressed shouldn't mean we call them all losers.
Okay...might give Greenslade a pass but the others...
Quote from: winner (n) on May 17, 2024, 04:52 PMTaylor
Umbers
Greenslade
Pattison
Grayston
(Missed one or two?)
Whose next to join the list of losers?
Forgot about the SKC man
Quote from: entrep on May 17, 2024, 04:40 PMNailed it. If only I could have got $2 million in consulting fees for that advice.
Best 3 point plan I have seen on Stocktalk . Took the Board way too long to execute. Entrep for Chair!
Quote from: Basil on May 13, 2024, 09:35 PMLOL mate. Better ask her I reckon.
In my previous post I suggested it's surely worth less that $1 now and then there's the almost inevitable NZX50 index exit still to come in due course. You could try a dead cat bounce on index exit trade..what could possibly go wrong lol
All time multi decade low of $1.05 hit today and almost certainly headed lower still.
The board need to be accountable for the absolute shambles of a state Nick has left this company in and the financial carnage he created which the board endorsed. Start with Joan Withers who in my opinion is well and truly past her "best before" date.
A tough one to turn around.
Kmart owns cheap and cheerful.
Briscoes owns reasonable quality merchandise.
Pak N Save owns cheap groceries.
Bunnings/Mitre 10 own DIY.
Warehouse owns no man's land.
Quote from: Basil on May 31, 2024, 05:56 PMAll time multi decade low of $1.05 hit today and almost certainly headed lower still.
The board need to be accountable for the absolute shambles of a state Nick has left this company in and the financial carnage he created which the board endorsed. Start with Joan Withers who in my opinion is well and truly past her "best before" date.
Hey Basil ...... need to show more respect to DAME JOAN
Recognised for services to business and women in business
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kings-birthday-honours-2024-back-to-business-peter-beck-theresa-gattung-jim-boult-rod-duke-rachel-smalley-adrienne-winkelmann-among-recipients/U7Q5INMWMZCBHCK6GQVO3LXOYY/
They forgot to mention all the good work she's done with ESG initiatives like giving back ~ $60m to the Govt with wage subsidies and how "wonderfully beneficial" those ESG things have been for WHS business.
Maybe they're saving that ESG recognition for a knighthood for John Penno next year ?
Warehouse given Extremely Woke rating
https://wokeup.nz/2024/03/20/the-warehouse-group/
Quote from: winner (n) on Jun 09, 2024, 02:39 PMWarehouse given Extremely Woke rating
https://wokeup.nz/2024/03/20/the-warehouse-group/
So has One.NZ : https://wokeup.nz/2023/11/07/one-nz-formerly-vodafone/
IFT shareholders better run for the hills ...
and Spark - they are listed as extremely woke as well.: https://wokeup.nz/2023/11/02/spark-nz/
No surprise their SP is tanking;
Ah yes, and Starbuck rounding up the list of extremely wokes: https://wokeup.nz/2023/10/31/starbucks/
... but lets face it - no decent anti-woke would drink their coffee anyway ... its not just woke, but it makes fat. Oops - this was an anti-woke comment, wasn't it?
Quote from: winner (n) on Jun 09, 2024, 02:39 PMWarehouse given Extremely Woke rating
https://wokeup.nz/2024/03/20/the-warehouse-group/
Well. It did go down the Living Wage route. And sold Disney Pride toys and actively donated to radical Trans activists InsideOut. As well as green washing. They tick a few boxes.
Quote from: Minimoke on Jun 09, 2024, 05:38 PMWell. It did go down the Living Wage route. And sold Disney Pride toys and actively donated to radical Trans activists In
Quote from: winner (n) on Jun 09, 2024, 02:39 PMWarehouse given Extremely Woke rating
https://wokeup.nz/2024/03/20/the-warehouse-group/
Click on retailers - https://wokeup.nz/businesses/
You could use it as an inverse ranking of most successful to least successful based on their woke ratings.
ie Briscoes & Hallensteins not woke - best in class
Warehouse extreme woke at the other end
Quote from: Sideshow Bob on Jun 10, 2024, 08:58 AMClick on retailers - https://wokeup.nz/businesses/
You could use it as an inverse ranking of most successful to least successful based on their woke ratings.
ie Briscoes & Hallensteins not woke - best in class
Warehouse extreme woke at the other end
And Kathmandu just Woke
How do these companies claim to be "woke" when most of them buy/make all their products from China - one of the most anti-woke countries on the planet?
Quote from: winner (n) on Jun 10, 2024, 09:38 AMAnd Kathmandu just Woke
Quite so, hope the anti-woke brigade can give Kathmandu a break for only being luke-woke in a sea of woke.
Disclaimer: I'm underwater and caught in a Rip Curl.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Jun 10, 2024, 09:43 AMHow do these companies claim to be "woke" when most of them buy/make all their products from China - one of the most anti-woke countries on the planet?
They don't claim to be "woke". They are just labelled as being "woke" from a righteous and rather clueless group of populists and extreme rights, who turned this positive term negative and are now weaponizing it against people and organisations they don't like.
From wikipedia:
QuoteWoke is a political slang adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) originally meaning alertness to racial prejudice and discrimination.[1] Beginning in the 2010s, it came to encompass a broader awareness of social inequalities such as racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBT rights. Woke has also been used as shorthand for some ideas of the American Left involving identity politics and social justice, such as white privilege and reparations for slavery in the United States
Nothing wrong with fighting for the rights of the downtrodden - and that's what being "woke" actually means.
Obviously - this does not mean that its the job of listed companies to turn this into their main focus (unless they have a business case for doing so).
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jun 10, 2024, 10:20 AMThey don't claim to be "woke". They are just labelled as being "woke" from a righteous and rather clueless group of populists and extreme rights, who turned this positive term negative and are now weaponizing it against people and organisations they don't like.
From wikipedia:
Nothing wrong with fighting for the rights of the downtrodden - and that's what being "woke" actually means.
Obviously - this does not mean that its the job of listed companies to turn this into their main focus (unless they have a business case for doing so).
Warehouse is as woke as any public listed company can ever be. Just look at their pathetic attempt to incorporate Maori & gender-neutral signage etc into their stores and products! Seriously, WTF cares?
Go woke and go broke. The Warehouse is one prime example.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jun 10, 2024, 10:20 AMThey don't claim to be "woke". They are just labelled as being "woke" from a righteous and rather clueless group of populists and extreme rights, who turned this positive term negative and are now weaponizing it against people and organisations they don't like.
From wikipedia:
Nothing wrong with fighting for the rights of the downtrodden - and that's what being "woke" actually means.
Obviously - this does not mean that its the job of listed companies to turn this into their main focus (unless they have a business case for doing so).
Well, no - they don't claim to be woke as such, but they do trumpet the ingredients of being woke. Which is ok, if as you say, they are supported by a strong business case. But so many of those ingredients are not supported or allowed in China so there's a great deal of hypocrisy in all of this imo.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jun 10, 2024, 10:20 AMThey don't claim to be "woke". They are just labelled as being "woke" from a righteous and rather clueless group of populists and extreme rights, who turned this positive term negative and are now weaponizing it against people and organisations they don't like.
From wikipedia:
Nothing wrong with fighting for the rights of the downtrodden - and that's what being "woke" actually means.
Obviously - this does not mean that its the job of listed companies to turn this into their main focus (unless they have a business case for doing so).
Since when is fighting for the rights of the down trodden a business responsibility?
Quote from: Minimoke on Jun 10, 2024, 11:08 AMSince when is fighting for the rights of the down trodden a business responsibility?
Maybe you should have read my post (particular the last paragraph) before responding :) ;
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Jun 10, 2024, 10:57 AMWell, no - they don't claim to be woke as such, but they do trumpet the ingredients of being woke. Which is ok, if as you say, they are supported by a strong business case. But so many of those ingredients are not supported or allowed in China so there's a great deal of hypocrisy in all of this imo.
I think the larger problem is that a number of badly managed companies prefer to do the easy thing (collecting ethical brownie points paid by shareholders) instead of focussing on their main job (earning money for their share holders).
But yes, I'd agree its unlikely to source ethically produced products in todays totalitarian China which has little or no regard to human rights ...
Quote from: Teitei on Jun 10, 2024, 10:38 AMWarehouse is as woke as any public listed company can ever be. Just look at their pathetic attempt to incorporate Maori & gender-neutral signage etc into their stores and products! Seriously, WTF cares?
Go woke and go broke. The Warehouse is one prime example.
No argument that the Warehouse did over the last handful of years a terrible job in making money for their shareholders.
No argument either that some of their actions could be called by a certain group of people "woke" (like supporting minorities or paying living wage).
However - you did not provide any evidence that there is any link between these two things. From reading their reports their big money drains have been:
1) Trying to push an online business platform which didn't took off (The Market);
2) Investing and loosing millions into a business which didn't fit to the Warehouse group (Torpedo 7)
3) Halfars*d attempt to move into groceries (halfhearted attempts never work)
4) Loosing business to more capable competitors (JB Hi-Fi and KMart)
None of these money drains are in anyway related to any "Woke" activity of the company, it all just demonstrates lack of sensible business practises and bad management applied by Warehouse Board and Management.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jun 10, 2024, 11:50 AMNo argument that the Warehouse did over the last handful of years a terrible job in making money for their shareholders.
No argument either that some of their actions could be called by a certain group of people "woke" (like supporting minorities or paying living wage).
However - you did not provide any evidence that there is any link between these two things. From reading their reports their big money drains have been:
1) Trying to push an online business platform which didn't took off (The Market);
2) Investing and loosing millions into a business which didn't fit to the Warehouse group (Torpedo 7)
3) Halfars*d attempt to move into groceries (halfhearted attempts never work)
4) Loosing business to more capable competitors (JB Hi-Fi and KMart)
None of these money drains are in anyway related to any "Woke" activity of the company, it all just demonstrates lack of sensible business practises and bad management applied by Warehouse Board and Management.
It's the mindset - board and management who have time to think and implement woke policies and strategies, have the same screwed up mindset when it comes to overall business strategies and policies.
Seriously, WTF cares about staff attending culturally & gender aware customer interaction (part of WHS staff training) indoctrination courses and programs when said staff walk by products in a dishevelled state (common state of Warehouse stores) or plants half dead with no attempt to tidy up or clean up?
Basics, not woke!
Woke infested minds cannot make sound decisions.
That's how the Warehouse screwed itself up.
Investors pull cash from ESG funds as performance lags
Sustainably focused equity funds suffer net $40bn of outflows in 2024, the first sustained exodus
https://www.ft.com/?segmentId=e771b563-f0b1-4936-1685-c2330e148777&utm_us=JJIBAS&countryCode=ESP
If you are thinking of investing in The Warehouse, I reckon this page is worth reading. Because it encapsulates all that is rotten to the core in this business.
There is no evidence that shows that any of these things add to profitability, efficiency, quality or an enhanced customer experience.
Every moment they spent dreaming this stuff is moments they werent thinking about their core business. Every moment they now spend keeping this thing alive are moments they can't spend on righting the ship.
This is the stuff of lazy boards and lazy management. Its so easy to slap this kind of stuff up. You dont have to think. It makes you look busy. It makes you look virtuous.
Its total bollocks. And for this reason alone TWG should be given the long barge pole treatment.
https://www.thewarehousegroup.co.nz/corporate-citizenship/diversity-inclusion
Quote from: Minimoke on Jun 11, 2024, 07:24 AMIf you are thinking of investing in The Warehouse, I reckon this page is worth reading. Because it encapsulates all that is rotten to the core in this business.
There is no evidence that shows that any of these things add to profitability, efficiency, quality or an enhanced customer experience.
Every moment they spent dreaming this stuff is moments they werent thinking about their core business. Every moment they now spend keeping this thing alive are moments they can't spend on righting the ship.
This is the stuff of lazy boards and lazy management. Its so easy to slap this kind of stuff up. You dont have to think. It makes you look busy. It makes you look virtuous.
Its total bollocks. And for this reason alone TWG should be given the long barge pole treatment.
https://www.thewarehousegroup.co.nz/corporate-citizenship/diversity-inclusion
WHS's resources & profit sapping woke policies are driven by its principal shareholder whose motivations in life now are totally different from that of minority shareholders.
He has made his fortune and it's now about personal legacy which unfortunately means he is more concerned about the woke things (like incorporating cultural BS into WHS culture) which earns the WHS (and him) kudos in the woke world but screws up the business.
WHS group is uninvestible indeed until his influence and shareholding are gone.
Wokeness is the way of the new world these days. I stayed in a brand new hotel in Cadiz last night. No kettle in case I scold myself, a bright green light above the bedroom door (in case I cant find my way out) bathing the the room in an annoying eerie green glow all night and a flashing red light every 6 seconds from the smoke detector above the bed. Designed , I'd imagine, by some very clever chap with a decent degree who was following all the latest EU guidelines but without an ounce of business sense.
Quote from: kiwi2007 on Jun 12, 2024, 08:44 AMWokeness is the way of the new world these days. I stayed in a brand new hotel in Cadiz last night. No kettle in case I scold myself, a bright green light above the bedroom door (in case I cant find my way out) bathing the the room in an annoying eerie green glow all night and a flashing red light every 6 seconds from the smoke detector above the bed. Designed , I'd imagine, by some very clever chap with a decent degree who was following all the latest EU guidelines but without an ounce of business sense.
Always interesting to hear people running down terms without any clue what they mean, but whatever ...
Tells us a lot about these people, doesn't it?
BTW - what does it exactly have to do with the Warehouse if you pick a hotel which does not seem to suit your needs?
Getting back to The Warehouse ... I have just been looking online for a cheap pair of everyday, mucking about shoes, only to find that every pair of shoes I liked, is not available in store. It seems shoes are now online only (other than maybe slippers and gumboots).
Wh0 buys shoes without trying them on first? Sizes vary according to where they are made, and some people have foot issues which means some shoes are not suitable.
If this is the way The Warehouse is going, no wonder people are not shopping there. They are not what they used to be that's for sure.
Quote from: Untamed on Jun 14, 2024, 06:25 PMGetting back to The Warehouse ... I have just been looking online for a cheap pair of everyday, mucking about shoes, only to find that every pair of shoes I liked, is not available in store. It seems shoes are now online only (other than maybe slippers and gumboots).
Wh0 buys shoes without trying them on first? Sizes vary according to where they are made, and some people have foot issues which means some shoes are not suitable.
If this is the way The Warehouse is going, no wonder people are not shopping there. They are not what they used to be that's for sure.
Mmh - while I am not sure I would generally recommend to buy shoes in the Warehouse (some of their other stuff is not too bad) ... last time I checked, their shoe shelves have been stacked. Maybe its a problem with your specific size? They tend to run out of popular sizes early ...
Agree - buying shoes online does not work for me either.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jun 15, 2024, 11:35 AMMmh - while I am not sure I would generally recommend to buy shoes in the Warehouse (some of their other stuff is not too bad) ... last time I checked, their shoe shelves have been stacked. Maybe its a problem with your specific size? They tend to run out of popular sizes early ...
Agree - buying shoes online does not work for me either.
It was nothing to do with not having a particular size. Every shoe I looked at on the website had a "Please note" statement below the product info, stating the shoes are not available in store - online only.
It seems to me that The Warehouse is still sourcing many of their products via "partners" - as they did with The Market before they canned it. More and more products only available online.
I rarely shop there now, and hardly ever buy shoes there. Was really just looking to see what they had.
Quote from: Teitei on Jun 10, 2024, 12:54 PMIt's the mindset - board and management who have time to think and implement woke policies and strategies, have the same screwed up mindset when it comes to overall business strategies and policies.
Seriously, WTF cares about staff attending culturally & gender aware customer interaction (part of WHS staff training) indoctrination courses and programs when said staff walk by products in a dishevelled state (common state of Warehouse stores) or plants half dead with no attempt to tidy up or clean up?
Basics, not woke!
Woke infested minds cannot make sound decisions.
That's how the Warehouse screwed itself up.
ESG stuff is a major distraction from what the core of running a successful retail business is.
The Warehouse has really gone down hill over the last few years. Lack of stock being the main one. They have amalgamated Warehouse Stationery into the main stores, and handed over floor space to a new grocery section, the result of which is there is hardly any stock of the stuff they used to sell before. Which presumably was the stuff people wanted to buy.
Now it doesnt matter if I am black or white, gay or straight, male or female (or other), what matters is that I want to buy cat litter. And they dont have any. They've gone from having a really decent pet section, to it being a single aisle with stuff mostly out of stock. Same for a lot of things that I've gone in there lately to look for - I have been forced to walk out without buying anything because they dont have anything to buy.
Perhaps if they dumped the hundreds of people employed to spend money on diversity advertising or whatever, and hired the same number of people to be stock designers and buyers, the Warehouse would be more successful. At the end of the day paying a living wage to employees is meaningless when those employees end up losing their jobs due to store closures.
Paying a living wage is also meaningless if the stuff act like they don't give A RATS about the job.
I hate that people are attributing WHS downfall to the living wage and diversity initiatives.
Many successful companies embody these values. Idk why people hate to see others make a 'living wage' - its hardly excessive... The same people probably complain about customer service these days.
Find a better scapegoat. Perhaps that the business doesn't offer anything of value in its current form. Nothing the staff on the floor have control over.
Quote from: SemiStrongForm on Jun 18, 2024, 04:57 PMI hate that people are attributing WHS downfall to the living wage and diversity initiatives.
Many successful companies embody these values. Idk why people hate to see others make a 'living wage' - its hardly excessive... The same people probably complain about customer service these days.
Find a better scapegoat. Perhaps that the business doesn't offer anything of value in its current form. Nothing the staff on the floor have control over.
Not the living wage that's the problem, its all the other Woke stuff the company embraces and then there's the troughers further up the food chain than the floor staff that have their snouts well buried, the former CEO is a classic example.
Quote from: Breezy on Jun 18, 2024, 05:08 PMNot the living wage that's the problem, its all the other Woke stuff the company embraces and then there's the troughers further up the food chain than the floor staff that have their snouts well buried, the former CEO is a classic example.
We agree that business model is the most important contributor to success. The Canvas, Atlassians of the world seem to be doing fine with their 'woke' initiatives.
Where we differ is that I say there is nothing to suggest that these ESG/woke initiatives are the distraction responsible for kind of decline in value. Only poor strategic decisions made by the executive in other areas can have caused this mess. And there is no evidence to suggest that WHS prioritised ESG/'wokeness' above all else. Such a suggestion is made for political/ideological reasons - not linked to actual operation of WHS.
Quote from: SemiStrongForm on Jun 18, 2024, 04:57 PMI hate that people are attributing WHS downfall to the living wage and diversity initiatives.
Many successful companies embody these values. Idk why people hate to see others make a 'living wage' - its hardly excessive... The same people probably complain about customer service these days.
Find a better scapegoat. Perhaps that the business doesn't offer anything of value in its current form. Nothing the staff on the floor have control over.
When a retailer stops putting the customer at the centre of everything they do, and starts thinking that their reason for existing is to enable employees to buy houses, or to make certain identity groups feel better about themselves, or to combat cllimate change, or to line the pockets of management, or whatever else they have taken their eye off the ball to focus on - that retailer is heading towards certain death. The customer needs to come first, shareholders second, and maybe after that they can throw some spare change towards the virtue signalling mob.
Yeap, agree 100% with KW. WHS running a very close second to Synlait with their extreme focus on all things ESG. Its not a coincidence that in both cases the share price is "in the toilet". Gosh, am I allowed to use that expression any more or is that not cool from a P.C. perspective lol
Quote from: Basil on Jun 18, 2024, 05:44 PMYeap, agree 100% with KW. WHS running a very close second to Synlait with their extreme focus on all things ESG. Its not a coincidence that in both cases the share price is "in the toilet". Gosh, am I allowed to use that expression any more or is that not cool from a P.C. perspective lol
Synlait is beset by irresponsible capital management: too much debt, poor operational performance; low utilisation of its plant; and not raising equity when it could have.
In contrast to what you suggest, the link between poor capital management and ESG is weak.
In no particular order:
Fire their clothing buyers, both mens and womens, and get people with at least a little eye for what people actually want.
Close some stores, there are too many in Auckland for a start.
The Albany store has a totally different positive feel and atmosphere to the rest of the rather drab and downbeat stores I've come across. Promote the guy who runs it and get him to sort the rest out - easy, isn't it. ;D
Quote from: kiwi2007 on Jun 18, 2024, 10:27 PMIn no particular order:
Fire their clothing buyers, both mens and womens, and get people with at least a little eye for what people actually want.
Close some stores, there are too many in Auckland for a start.
The Albany store has a totally different positive feel and atmosphere to the rest of the rather drab and downbeat stores I've come across. Promote the guy who runs it and get him to sort the rest out - easy, isn't it. ;D
This is all true. It was only a decade ago that Kmart was deeply in the poop. It was turned around relatively quickly. (https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/how-kmart-became-the-cool-mum-of-australia-s-discount-retailers-20200207-p53yn1.html) In two years Kmart had a major structural overhaul that yielded a 100% increased profits. The key was strong management and meeting customer wants. (https://hiring.careerone.com.au/content/hiring-advice/leadership-turned-kmart-around-russo/) The simple things, done well. There's nothing stopping WHS from becoming relevant again. It'll all depend with who they appoint at the top. The initial noise (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/519850/the-warehouse-to-be-reshaped-around-core-brands-new-leadership) is positive but I don't see them as investable...yet.
Quote from: Hectorplains on Jun 20, 2024, 04:32 PMThis is all true. It was only a decade ago that Kmart was deeply in the poop. It was turned around relatively quickly. (https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/how-kmart-became-the-cool-mum-of-australia-s-discount-retailers-20200207-p53yn1.html) In two years Kmart had a major structural overhaul that yielded a 100% increased profits. The key was strong management and meeting customer wants. (https://hiring.careerone.com.au/content/hiring-advice/leadership-turned-kmart-around-russo/) The simple things, done well. There's nothing stopping WHS from becoming relevant again. It'll all depend with who they appoint at the top. The initial noise (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/519850/the-warehouse-to-be-reshaped-around-core-brands-new-leadership) is positive but I don't see them as investable...yet.
It's true Kmart have executed on a very good turnaround of the presentation of their stores and customer service, but the core of why they have been able to increase marketshare and profits so much is that they transformed from a retailer to a disruptive product maker.
Kmart Australia/NZ is owned by ASX listed Westfarmers and not owned by Kmart International.
Kmart AU owns the hugely successful Anko brand. Whilst you could call it a house brand, it's been a smashing success and you could put it up there with Zuru in terms of disruption. Over 85% of everything sold in Australasia is Anko. It only launched in 2019 and is now sold globally at Target, launched a partnership with Mattel for toys to sell across Walmart Stores in North America, Zellers in Canada, via Amazon in some jurisdictions, etc. Being vertically integrated Kmart is close to buying trends, has no margin sucking middlemen, and has a hyper efficient product design, development and manufacturing capability.
WHS could get back to basics - maybe, if they aren't in too much a downward spiral where they don't have the capital to reinvest back into the business - but its hard to fathom how they could remotely compete with Kmart's ANKO brand. I reckon Kmart will continue to rollout stores, or even pickoff abandoned warehouse sites overtime, and slowly but surely, continue to pulverise the WHS into oblivion (sort of like what the WHS did to mum and pop retailers 25 years ago)
Nick and the board wrecked this company. ~$60m donated back to the Govt from Covid support because Cindy frowned on them and they are so focused on ESG they have forgotten about their obligations to shareholders. By some accounts a total of well over $100m wasted on Nick's fantasy of creating a mini N.Z. Amazon with the market and there have been so many fiascos I forget how much got torpedoed on Torpedo7 ~ $60m?.
Tindall, opps sorry Sir Stephen Tindall, must be proud though with all the good he is doing, essentially running WHS stores with such skinny margins they operate as quasi not for profit Salvation Army stores. There's still a place for this charity in N.Z. for quite a while longer, serving provincial towns where K Mart doesn't exist yet. Their Te Kuiti store a classic example. Its the only big box retailer in town and their store completely dominates the main retail shopping strip.
Balance has hit the nail directly on the head, the major focus of the largest shareholders is incongruent with the standard principles of maximizing shareholder returns. It's all about leaving a legacy. Sir Stephen must be proud conferring employment opportunities on more than 11,000 staff and supplying the basics of life to low-income families at basically, cost price + 2% It's all about other stakeholders now...for as long as its lasts.
There's probably still quite some value in Noel Leeming and probably best to sell it and return the capital to shareholders before they waste it on more philanthropic endeavors. I think all brands go through a life cycle and WHS is slowly dying.
It seems to me a lot of people here draw a strong link between ESG and company performance, that they are inversely related, that lots of ESG causes poor performance. As a Wesfarmers employee (not Kmart but another division) I can assure you that Wesfarmers is awash with ESG, particularly the E part - modern-day slavery, anti-bullying, pay parity, employee diversity, etc etc. I think you might be astonished at just how much there is, and yet I think Wesfarmers is generally regarded as a successful company.
Quote from: Raven on Jun 21, 2024, 10:44 AMIt seems to me a lot of people here draw a strong link between ESG and company performance, that they are inversely related, that lots of ESG causes poor performance. As a Wesfarmers employee (not Kmart but another division) I can assure you that Wesfarmers is awash with ESG, particularly the E part - modern-day slavery, anti-bullying, pay parity, employee diversity, etc etc. I think you might be astonished at just how much there is, and yet I think Wesfarmers is generally regarded as a successful company.
Its not a lot of people. Its just a small group of noisy people influenced by alt right and populist ideologies, who tend to repeat their gospel constantly like a broken record.
ESG does not kill business, but of course - any business forgetting over ESG its main purpose of being is doomed.
ESG for a business is similar like hygiene for a restaurant or a surgery.
If you are a customer you clearly want both of them to adhere to the appropriate hygienic standards, but you also want them to focus on their main job (like preparing good meals in the restaurant, or performing beneficial health procedures in the surgery).
The examples this group of anti-wokes brings are just companies who forgot their main purpose of being
and focussing on ESG instead. Obviously - this works as well as a restaurant which only focusses on disinfecting its venues and forgetting about cooking tasty meals. How many of their clients will they keep? But on the other hand - I can tell you as well how many customers they will keep if they give each of them a Bali belly for ignoring hygiene.
The trick is balancing both, but this is hard to understand for populists.
Quote from: Raven on Jun 21, 2024, 10:44 AMIt seems to me a lot of people here draw a strong link between ESG and company performance, that they are inversely related, that lots of ESG causes poor performance. As a Wesfarmers employee (not Kmart but another division) I can assure you that Wesfarmers is awash with ESG, particularly the E part - modern-day slavery, anti-bullying, pay parity, employee diversity, etc etc. I think you might be astonished at just how much there is, and yet I think Wesfarmers is generally regarded as a successful company.
It's all about getting the balance right and there are plenty that do that. When ESG becomes the main focus point you know that the company has lost the plot. Synlait, a great example and WHS running a close second. Recently, the CFO of one of the listed retirement village companies started the end of year financial result presentation by detailing all their ESG achievements before even mentioning the financial performance. Shouldn't ESG stuff be somewhere in the main body of the presentation not right at the front end? That to me is a really big clue their focus is unbalanced. More than a few companies on the NZX try and disguise their woeful financial performance with liberal amounts of greenwashing.
Quote from: Basil on Jun 21, 2024, 11:26 AMIt's all about getting the balance right
Can I suggest to you, that on
balance, you overweight the destruction of shareholder value associated with 'ESG' (ie, living wage, diversity) and underweight the destruction of value caused by (1) complete lack of successful innovation in store offerings, products and brand over a period of 25 years; (2) the effect of increased competition from kmart, temu and other retailers that
are innovating ; (3) $100 million dollar value destruction from the online market place and other failed initiatives (Torpedo 7).
In 2021, Kmart was paying the living wage (I assume they do now as well). I don't think ESG has been the downfall of that business, to the contrary it is successful.
ESG is a strawman on this forum, and I'd like to do my part to bring in the actual value-relevant considerations that are more likely to be driving financial performance.
No doubt about it, apart from an excessive focus on all things ESG, the board allowed Nick to shoot WHS in the foot in quite a number of different ways before eventually summoning up the gonads to get rid of him. In addition, as you mention, while all this was happening over many years the competition has been executing well.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jun 21, 2024, 11:04 AMIts not a lot of people. Its just a small group of noisy people influenced by alt right and populist ideologies, who tend to repeat their gospel constantly like a broken record.
ESG does not kill business, but of course - any business forgetting over ESG its main purpose of being is doomed.
ESG for a business is similar like hygiene for a restaurant or a surgery.
If you are a customer you clearly want both of them to adhere to the appropriate hygienic standards, but you also want them to focus on their main job (like preparing good meals in the restaurant, or performing beneficial health procedures in the surgery).
The examples this group of anti-wokes brings are just companies who forgot their main purpose of being
and focussing on ESG instead. Obviously - this works as well as a restaurant which only focusses on disinfecting its venues and forgetting about cooking tasty meals. How many of their clients will they keep? But on the other hand - I can tell you as well how many customers they will keep if they give each of them a Bali belly for ignoring hygiene.
The trick is balancing both, but this is hard to understand for populists.
Not quite on a thread but this is exactly why we have had such poor performance from the public services (especially Health) - put bluntly the Managers/"Decision Makers" simply do not have the intellectual bandwidth to be able to concentrate on ESG (which the prior government stressed was its priority) and "doing the basics right" - the result is that we spent billions more on health but got worse outcomes because they removed all KPIs related to outcomes and the managers just concentrated on the topical ESG gift-wrapping - the result we are all receiving a worse service with worse outcomes.
The same applies to many NZ companies - we simply do not have enough competent, capable and intelligent senior managers and Directors.
Quote from: SemiStrongForm on Jun 21, 2024, 12:32 PMCan I suggest to you, that on balance, you overweight the destruction of shareholder value associated with 'ESG' (ie, living wage, diversity) and underweight the destruction of value caused by (1) complete lack of successful innovation in store offerings, products and brand over a period of 25 years; (2) the effect of increased competition from kmart, temu and other retailers that are innovating ; (3) $100 million dollar value destruction from the online market place and other failed initiatives (Torpedo 7).
In 2021, Kmart was paying the living wage (I assume they do now as well). I don't think ESG has been the downfall of that business, to the contrary it is successful.
ESG is a strawman on this forum, and I'd like to do my part to bring in the actual value-relevant considerations that are more likely to be driving financial performance.
Go to K-mart and witness how there's no woke or cultural signage in there.
Go to K-mart and witness how motivated staff are - continuously tidying up and sorting out merchandise so that they are in the proper places for customers to see and buy.
The Warehouse is all woke these days with the most pathetic indifferent & disinterested staff you could ever find. The emphasis has been on woke and cultural training rather than on how to take care of customers.
Is it any wonder that the businesses (previously profitable and successful like Torpedo & Noel Leeming) bought or created by Warehouse became such disasters?
Difference between K-Mart & Warehouse comes down to what and how the staff are trained and directed to do - one on customer service, the other on woke and cultural values.
Like I wrote before, the company reflects the desire of the principal shareholder to leave a legacy rather than a business.
Quote from: moose on Jun 21, 2024, 09:47 PMThe same applies to many NZ companies - we simply do not have enough competent, capable and intelligent senior managers and Directors.
Fair enough ... and clearly true for all sorts of jobs and activities - including politicians. Just we posters are an exception :) ;
I suspect however that NZ is not alone in this field. Lets face it - while everybody believes that they are a star, half of all people are below average in what they are doing. Simple maths.
Its just that dropping ESG in business does not improve the situation, same as dropping hygiene in a restaurant or surgery would. Maybe our schools need to refocus on what's useful, and teach next to reading, writing, discipline and respect as well to walk while chewing gum. Give it two generations or so, and it will all be fine :) ;
What went wrong for (?) the warehouse? Should be at the warehouse surely!
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/520304/what-went-wrong-for-the-warehouse
Our local Warehouse lost its way when they closed our standalone Warehouse Stationary store, which was actually an awesome place to shop, and moved it into one end of The Warehouse. Their Warehouse Stationary offering is now pathetic to see the least. A major backward step. At the same time they re-arranged the entire store, creating a layout which now makes zero sense in terms of store navigation. Their groceries are no cheaper than Pak n Save for the most part. In the past it was a place to go "window shopping" for something to do on a rainy day, or my go-to for garden stuff. I now probably go there no more than 4 times a year, if that.
They should have stuck to the original model and resisted the urge to expand into other areas. Once upon a time you could even buy a bottom range laptop there - not something I would have purchased, but for people on a low budget, it served a need.
They could shut up shop tomorrow and I wouldn't even notice. I suspect many locals feel the same.
Surprise, surprise...... a downgrade.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/433265
GLH.
Quote from: Left Field on Jun 24, 2024, 08:36 AMSurprise, surprise...... a downgrade.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/433265
GLH.
Go woke and go broke.
Bluntly, minorities are dumb to be in the stock given the influence of the principal
Shareholder whose motivation is incongruent to that of a progressive and prospering business (principal shareholder has of course already made his money in the hundreds of millions of dollars).
So ~$25m EBIT for full year ....not much NPAT after that no matter what 'adjustments' they come upmwith
Half year EBIT was $44m so second half a LOSS and a pretty big one at that
"The Group said retail trading across New Zealand continued to be challenging with increasingly subdued consumer demand further compounded by mild winter weather, resulting in lower than anticipated fourth quarter sales."
I drove past one of our new shopping precincts yesterday - Northlink. Its got a Discount Chemist, Rebel Sport, Briscoes, K mart and the like. Its not a covered mall. The car park was full and there appeared to be loads of people out and about. Despite the rain
Best thing that could happen here would be if Aldi or Lidl bought out the Tindall 48% and they used this to launch a third big supermarket player
I'd be in like a shot as a shareholder
Quote from: winner (n) on Jun 24, 2024, 08:58 AMSo ~$25m EBIT for full year ....not much NPAT after that no matter what 'adjustments' they come upmwith
Half year EBIT was $44m so second half a LOSS and a pretty big one at that
Getting booted out of the NZX50 looks increasingly likely too at either the Sept or December rebalance.
Quote from: Left Field on Jun 24, 2024, 08:36 AMSurprise, surprise...... a downgrade.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/433265
GLH.
Sounds like an upgrade compared to analyst expectations to me.
Analyst consensus for FY24 revenue was $3051m (acc. to marketscreener), while their announcement would end up with annual revenue of $3180m (using the mid point of their announcement).
Obviously earnings are anybody's best guess (given all the nasty one-offs), but market screener expected here as well a small loss (vs. WHS reduced profit).
Time to buy when analysts are pessimistic?
https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/THE-WAREHOUSE-GROUP-LIMIT-6491364/finances/
Analysts were expecting $74.56m EBIT for FY24 so the ~$25m number will lead to very serious downgrades in FY24 and subsequent years.
In FY25 and FY26 they were expecting EBIT of $107.7m and $134.5m. Given they are clearly running at an EBIT loss in 2H FY24, future earnings expectations are going to face some huge adjustments.
I'm with Balance and others that this is completely uninvestable now and in a state of slow and systemic decline. I'm pretty sure management will make the changes necessary for them to limp along for many more years and provide employment for 10,000+ employees and keep selling milk and other basic necessities to families at what amounts to basically, cost price. Those seem to be the main shareholders key goals now. I note at $75m EBIT analysts were expecting them to operate at a margin of 2.44%. Clearly at $25m EBIT they're running at an operating margin of less than 1% and that's before interest costs! As customers we should support the WHS because in effect, it's become a quasi-Salvation Army store operating as a quasi charity. By shopping there you are supporting the employment of more than 10,000 employees so you can feel really good about buying basic commodities there at cost price as you are doing good by supporting the retail workers.
Well, there it is...97c :o
Shareholders can relax though because:
"We are exercising tighter cost control and we have a laser focus on trading our
core brands, The Warehouse, Warehouse Stationery and Noel Leeming."
Quite staggering that WHS has been allowed to crash before they even thought about controlling costs and focusing on core business. Shareholders had a right to expect that this would be done as a matter of course. Nick may be gone but there is zero acknowledgment coming from the Board as to just how badly they have let down shareholders and also, by jeopardising the business itself, their staff.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jun 24, 2024, 11:19 AMTime to buy when analysts are pessimistic?
No thanks.
Quote from: Left Field on Jun 24, 2024, 07:11 PMNo thanks.
But but but Zir Ztephen.....Zuch a nice man, a likeable man....
RB
Quote from: Basil on Jun 24, 2024, 12:00 PMhttps://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/THE-WAREHOUSE-GROUP-LIMIT-6491364/finances/
Analysts were expecting $74.56m EBIT for FY24 so the ~$25m number will lead to very serious downgrades in FY24 and subsequent years.
In FY25 and FY26 they were expecting EBIT of $107.7m and $134.5m. Given they are clearly running at an EBIT loss in 2H FY24, future earnings expectations are going to face some huge adjustments.
I'm with Balance and others that this is completely uninvestable now and in a state of slow and systemic decline. I'm pretty sure management will make the changes necessary for them to limp along for many more years and provide employment for 10,000+ employees and keep selling milk and other basic necessities to families at what amounts to basically, cost price. Those seem to be the main shareholders key goals now. I note at $75m EBIT analysts were expecting them to operate at a margin of 2.44%. Clearly at $25m EBIT they're running at an operating margin of less than 1% and that's before interest costs! As customers we should support the WHS because in effect, it's become a quasi-Salvation Army store operating as a quasi charity. By shopping there you are supporting the employment of more than 10,000 employees so you can feel really good about buying basic commodities there at cost price as you are doing good by supporting the retail workers.
Well, yes - but ...
The EBIT number in market screener do not compare well compared with the numbers The Warehouse announced. Have a look at the 2023 EBIT. Market screener says 102m, while Warehouse says 83.4m.
Difference can't be the sell of Torpedo 7, can it? Or did they really sell 18.6 m EBIT for $1?
Anyway - my post referred to the Topline, not to some CFO defined EBIT, so it does not really matter.
... and yes, my question whether its now a BUY was a light hearted question ... but I realise that WHS might have run out of the light hearted stuff. Lets hope it is just the WHS thread ... sometimes it feels these forums are getting less and less fun.
The main thing you can take from the announcement is that in the second half of financial continuing operations are running at a loss .......and it's hard to see much improvement in H125
Quote from: winner (n) on Jun 25, 2024, 02:53 PMThe main thing you can take from the announcement is that in the second half of financial continuing operations are running at a loss .......and it's hard to see much improvement in the foreseeable future
Fixed that for you.
They finally found the Organisation Chart Nick was using
Doubt whether Journee can really change it ...he seems to be into buzz words
Think other companies use this as well?
Sorry ...can't show you as site only allows small file size and the image is a bit too big ...might figure out how to shrink file size later. ....
...posted in other place
WHS trying to get its, in my opinion, "heavily bloated", head office staff level down to size.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/07/11/head-office-job-cuts-coming-at-the-warehouse-group/
Quote from: Basil on Jul 12, 2024, 10:40 AMWHS trying to get its, in my opinion, "heavily bloated", head office staff level down to size.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/07/11/head-office-job-cuts-coming-at-the-warehouse-group/
"Over 1000 people work in the head office."
Jeez, that a lot, even considering that they had at last FY a total head count of 11000.
One bean counter for 10 sales people? Must be very high performing sales people or the bean counters have little to count :) ;
Well, I think we know the answer to that.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jul 12, 2024, 11:27 AM"Over 1000 people work in the head office."
Jeez, that a lot, even considering that they had at last FY a total head count of 11000.
One bean counter for 10 sales people? Must be very high performing sales people or the bean counters have little to count :) ;
Well, I think we know the answer to that.
Sounds like they were run by a bunch of the last governments best friends. Maybe Nick took inspiration from Jacinda.
Quote from: Greekwatchdog on Jul 12, 2024, 11:55 AMSounds like they were run by a bunch of the last governments best friends. Maybe Nick took inspiration from Jacinda.
LOL, best post of the week.
Their Red Sheds always appear to be under staffed to me.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Jul 12, 2024, 11:27 AM"Over 1000 people work in the head office."
Jeez, that a lot, even considering that they had at last FY a total head count of 11000.
One bean counter for 10 sales people? Must be very high performing sales people or the bean counters have little to count :) ;
Well, I think we know the answer to that.
Over 1,000 people at head office! I nearly spat my coffee out reading this. Unbelievablely high head office headcount for a fairly simple domestic retailer. Rod Duke would do it with maybe 10% of that?
In another life I visited Rod at his office. His office was above the st Luke's store before it was renovated. The place was old and tired..no flash office here..no suits here. The Rebel sport buyers I dealt with were in another rabbit warren of a building in the same complex
If you google a picture of the warehouse head office....Briscoes was the dead opposite.
The money was in the store fit out not the head office and you can't beat being at
Coal face with the big cheeses office being at a store.
Great operator...deserves all the success he gets.
Needless to say but we had to bend over and take it for our buying terms with them...lol.
They wanted margin, margin margin or get lost.
Great anecdote Perky. Owner operator mentality is so far removed from Corporate other people's money mentality. Briscoes and warehouse respective performances speak for themselves.
Crikey......a potential takeover!!??
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434820
Don't sell notice issued.
Quote from: Left Field on Jul 22, 2024, 09:52 AMCrikey......a potential takeover!!??
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434820
Don't sell notice issued.
Leaky boat over the last week I reckon
Maybe takeover is on with a don't sell notice today
Tindall once offered $5.75 (with an equity partner) .....doubt whether they go that high this time but
Quote from: Crackity on Jul 22, 2024, 10:09 AMLeaky boat over the last week I reckon
I don't hold or follow, but reckon you are right..... chart shows big vols going through last Friday at around 10% premium. Interesting days!
Quote from: Left Field on Jul 22, 2024, 10:46 AMI don't hold or follow, but reckon you are right..... chart shows big vols going through last Friday at around 10% premium. Interesting days!
Clearly - big money decided to seize the opportunities. Whether it is as well smart money, we will see.
However - despite the previous team running the once reliable money making machine Warehouse into the mud and getting stuck, how difficult can it be to pull it out of the swamp and put it back to good purpose for anybody who knows how to run such a business?
I can see how somebody with experience can see opportunities at this price - backward PE (10 years) at SP 97 cents would have been below 7 - just get it out of the dirt and start harvesting money again :) ;
Discl: not holding - I did place my chips already and there are currently just so many other amazing opportunities around!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/sir-stephen-tindall-and-private-equity-firm-make-offer-for-shares-in-the-warehouse/PDXYPYWFK5G67LVG6NSWPZ2AXE/
Makes sense for Tindall to take it private and use the WHS footprint to launch a new supermarket brand.
Fits with his current mode of operation, (caring mainly about ESG matters and leaving a legacy) and not being concerned at all about return on investment.
I hope shareholders get taken out of their misery at a decent premium to the current price.
Quote from: winner (n) on Jul 22, 2024, 10:38 AMMaybe takeover is on with a don't sell notice today
Tindall once offered $5.75 (with an equity partner) .....doubt whether they go that high this time but
I think takeover for a new supermarket brand with this government is on, the sp being so low will be
another plus .
Takeover price to get majority shareholder's will need to be in the 1.90 just below two bucks I would say
Quote from: Auto Rower on Jul 22, 2024, 04:50 PMI think takeover for a new supermarket brand with this government is on, the sp being so low will be
another plus .
Takeover price to get majority shareholder's will need to be in the 1.90 just below two bucks I would say
The potential for a new supermarket is an interesting angle, but I reckon they will need to offer a lot more than that to get shareholders interested. I agree with others that WHS has been appallingly managed but if it can get a decent team together and implement a top-to-bottom overhaul, there's no reason that it can't rise form the ashes and be a profitable business again.
I can't see this sniffing around as being anything more than opportunistic and won't come to anything. Good for the SP and it gives notice to WHS management that the vultures are circling and they better get on with strengthening the business.
More details of the Tindall offer....$1.50 to $1.70.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/434931
The Warehouse Group Limited (NZX: WHS) ("Company") advises that this morning it received from private equity firm, Adamantem Capital Management Pty Ltd (as manager of the Adamantem Capital Fund II), an unsolicited, non-binding, indicative proposal with a view to entering into discussions about a potential acquisition of all of the Company's shares at a proposed price in the range of NZ$1.50 to NZ$1.70 per share via a scheme of arrangement (the "Proposal").
The Proposal notes that Sir Stephen Tindall, The Tindall Foundation and trustees of certain trusts associated with Sir Stephen Tindall ("Founder Shareholders") support the Proposal and will remain invested in the Company through reinvesting a portion of their consideration in the acquirer of the Company (resulting in the Founder Shareholders having a shareholding of up to 50% in the acquirer). All other shareholders will receive an all-cash offer for the entirety of their shareholding.
A tad underwhelming given many shareholders will be under water even at $1.70. Also, to put the feelers out there without making a formal offer seems like a bob each way for the purchaser....this is a bit wishy washy:
Quotenon-binding, indicative proposal with a view to entering into discussions about a potential acquisition
NZX needs to investigate Friday's 10% share price jump. Clear example of insider trading and more leaks than a sieve. Smellier than 4 day old fish left out of the fridge. Agree Ferg. pretty underwhelming and very uncertain.
What chance that the new supermarket has a privately owned,bakery,butchery,friuteer operating from within their umbrella.
Quote from: Ferg on Jul 23, 2024, 11:02 AMA tad underwhelming given many shareholders will be under water even at $1.70. Also, to put the feelers out there without making a formal offer seems like a bob each way for the purchaser....this is a bit wishy washy:
Irrelevant when and at what price shareholders bought their shares? This is in a way a free get out of jail card if the takeover goes ahead - WHS as of what & where it is today has not much of a future imo.
Tindall has always held a very positive view of the Warehouse despite evidence to the contrary in recent years.
This is the last throw of the dice and how confident are shareholders that Adamantem will follow through with a solid proposal after due diligence?
Can't see the offer getting shareholder approval and I think the independent valuation will be significantly more. I understand the impulse to jump ship but this is the first shot across the bow and if Tindal is actually serious he will have lift his offer by quite a bit.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Jul 23, 2024, 03:41 PMCan't see the offer getting shareholder approval and I think the independent valuation will be significantly more. I understand the impulse to jump ship but this is the first shot across the bow and if Tindal is actually serious he will have lift his offer by quite a bit.
I agree. This seems really "opportunistic" to me. Right at the bottom of the economic cycle and just after they've cleared the decks of the former CEO who was such a failure, it couldn't possibly get any worse after clearing the decks of his ridiculous fantasies of the market and torpedo 7 and the hundreds of million of dollars wasted there.
Now the organization is more straightforward, get rid of half the head office staff that are no longer needed, then halve it again ridding themselves of all the mindless ESG fanatics and the ship might actually start to get some momentum again.
Don't know how he could try and take this over for less than $2, (disgraceful and highway robbery), with a straight face and doubt private equity would want to go that far so this deal could quite possibly end up in the rubbish tin.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/stock-takes-norman-family-keep-cards-close-to-chest-over-warehouse-deal-plus-richard-prebbles-payout/HLQFD5L3JVGKFJYDUYUVJW3SA4/ Paywalled
Any deal would require the Norman's approval which might not be easily forthcoming.
Takeover canned. Nick still still has a chance to get that share price back to $4 to get money back then.
The Warehouse Group has announced that it is not progressing discussions with Adamantem Capital Management Pty Ltd in regard to their Scheme of Arrangement proposal to acquire all the Company's shares at a price range of $1.50-1.70 per share.
The Warehouse Group Chair Dame Joan Withers says, "The current Scheme of Arrangement doesn't have the critical shareholder backing it needs to proceed. With that in mind, the Board has decided to defer further talks until such time as the proposal receives wider shareholder support."
A key shareholder has informed the Board that they do not support the current terms, and therefore the requirement for 75% approval from shareholders in each interest class is not possible.
"We acknowledge the interest from Adamantem Capital and the backing from Sir Stephen Tindall, however, without broader shareholder support, it is not prudent for us to pursue this proposal further.
"We're committed to acting in the best interest of all our shareholders. While the board has not yet formed a view on value, we're open to continue discussions if a further proposal generates shareholder support sufficient to make its execution viable."
The Norman's are clearly not interested in flogging groceries from the red sheds - not at $1.50 - $1.70 a share at least.
Quote from: Greekwatchdog on Aug 02, 2024, 04:09 PMakeover canned. Nick still still has a chance to get that share price back to $4 to get money back then.
LOL, "great" chance of that happening really soon ;)
Norman's obviously told them to make me a proper offer or @#$k off.
Based on average market cap in the last 6 months and this failed bid and likely retracement to $1 or below, removal from the NZX50 based on free float low market cap is very much back on the cards, possibly next month.
TWR is hot favorite to be the beneficiary for inclusion if that happens and almost a certainly for NZX50 inclusion anyway when ARV gets delisted in their takeover. In my opinion, index Inclusion events are most lucrative when they are supported by compelling fundamentals and TA. I think I need to get some more TWR.
Quote from: Basil on Jul 26, 2024, 04:12 PMhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/stock-takes-norman-family-keep-cards-close-to-chest-over-warehouse-deal-plus-richard-prebbles-payout/HLQFD5L3JVGKFJYDUYUVJW3SA4/ Paywalled
Any deal would require the Norman's approval which might not be easily forthcoming.
Hard to understand how anybody can make such a takeover attempt without prior talking to at least all major shareholders with a blocking minority?
Bunch of amateurs ...
what ....happened...
does that mean OCA is the next hopefull for punters after this one did not go a go go...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/why-kmarts-expansion-is-more-bad-news-for-the-warehouse/X2H3R45VX5AEPLXEPFK4QGQO64/?lid=mopw3rcp4cce
Paywalled. Amazing numbers for K Mart and more competition for WHS.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/438870
• Total Group sales $3.0 billion in FY24, down 6.2% compared to FY23
• The Warehouse sales were $1.8 billion, down 5.3%
• Warehouse Stationery sales were $231.9 million, down 6.7%
• Noel Leeming sales were $1.0 billion, down 5.3%
• Gross Profit Margin held flat at 33.6%
• Adjusted NPAT of $18.9 million, down from $57.4 million in FY23
• Net Loss After Tax of $54.2 million, down from NPAT of $29.8 million in FY23
• Net Debt of $50.7 million.
What a shocker.
QuoteChair Dame Joan Withers described the last financial year as one of the most challenging in
the company's 42-year history.
"The economic climate in Aotearoa New Zealand has been difficult for most retailers, with
inflation, high interest rates, and a weak economy significantly reducing consumer demand.
However, our trading performance and operational execution have fallen short and
exacerbated these challenges."
"The poor financial performance we've reported this year is not acceptable. The Board and
Executive Leadership team are acutely aware of the disappointment shareholders will be
experiencing and the big job ahead of us to get the company back on track."
Joan as the chair is directly responsible for allowing the massive cluster f@#& of the market.com and Torpedo 7, among other things including an absurd focus on all things ESG that Nick inflicted upon the company. She is well and truly past her "best before" date and should do the decent thing and retire.
Without change at a board level and knowing the Tndall group as the controlling shareholder is primarily now interested in leaving a legacy for Kiwi's, I remain of the view this is uninvestable.
The new advertising program WHS have initiated on T.V. is good but it's just a drop in the bucket in terms of what's required to get a decent return on capital employed. Is that even possible now given competitive pressures?
Consider this. The WHS was formed about 41 years ago before we even had the internet and online shopping overseas. We've got massive expansion by K Mart among others planned and frankly they are eating the WHS lunch. Back in the 1980's if WHS told you that you were getting a bargain, you believed them. Now, you'd be better off checking online or shopping at K Mart.
Another terrible result! No money to pay dividend - wasted it all on high exec salaries and vanity projects.
There really isn't any excuse for the situation the Board finds themselves in - they enabled Nick and all his wasteful badly-thought-through expansionist ideas. As a result they completely lost focus and have become a $3b business that can barely make $20m in profit, have $50m of bank debt and can't pay shareholders a dividend. Totally foreseeable and avoidable yet the only ones who couldn't see it or know what to do about it were the Board (and Nick). What a shambles!
disc. happy non-holder
Shareholders can relax though because although they feel the pain with no final dividend, Nick was severely punished for wasting well north of $100m of his stupid idea of the market.com and his total remuneration package for 2024 was well down on last year....OH hang on a minute, WTF, surely not...it was well up on the previous year, see page 82
https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/438870/attachment/428103/438870-428103.pdf
Total compensation for 2024 was $4.22m up from $2.8m last year ! It looks like they had to pay him, if I am reading between the lines here correctly, an extra $2.176m to get rid of him. What a complete fiasco...just as well we can rely on Tony Carter and Joan Withers on the board to initiate the changes necessary going forward (sarcasm).
Jeez Basil, thevJoan and Tony show to save them .....no sarcasm intended lol
You prob find a relevant YouTube clip?
As requested lol
Joan and Tony thrashing Nick and trying to start the WHS up again...I'll count to three ROFL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n77eoOfRPE
The Normans blocked the Tindall takeover bid right?
Quote from: entrep on Sep 26, 2024, 12:26 PMThe Normans blocked the Tindall takeover bid right?
Yes.
Reading through the comments by Journee, I was struck by the admissions of folly which were all being discussed with great gusto on ST 2-3 years ago ... in particular the need to put the kibosh on the market and torpedoe7. The fact they were in denial for several years before finally taking action shows the group think and denial that can take hold in a corporate. You can bet there would have been voices internally questioning why they werent attempting to turn the Titanic around, but not at the seniority needed. You have to question what the board were up to, it is up to them to annoint/challenge the strategy preented by the CEO.
Quote from: Popeye on Sep 26, 2024, 02:44 PMReading through the comments by Journee, I was struck by the admissions of folly which were all being discussed with great gusto on ST 2-3 years ago ... in particular the need to put the kibosh on the market and torpedoe7. The fact they were in denial for several years before finally taking action shows the group think and denial that can take hold in a corporate. You can bet there would have been voices internally questioning why they werent attempting to turn the Titanic around, but not at the seniority needed. You have to question what the board were up to, it is up to them to annoint/challenge the strategy preented by the CEO.
And Journee has been a Director throughout that period...so was party to the strategy eh
Quote from: winner (n) on Sep 26, 2024, 03:02 PMAnd Journee has been a Director throughout that period...so was party to the strategy eh
I did not realise that. I could sort of forgive him if he was giving the feedback to his CEO that the strategy was bad and needed open heart surgery, and getting ignored (it happens within a hierarchy), but as a director there would be no excuse not to let loose wit what you think.
I have been there when my advice was ignored up the line, but I consoled myself that at least I had argued my side and not just been a nodding head...
Quote from: Popeye on Sep 26, 2024, 02:44 PMReading through the comments by Journee, I was struck by the admissions of folly which were all being discussed with great gusto on ST 2-3 years ago ... in particular the need to put the kibosh on the market and torpedoe7. The fact they were in denial for several years before finally taking action shows the group think and denial that can take hold in a corporate. You can bet there would have been voices internally questioning why they werent attempting to turn the Titanic around, but not at the seniority needed. You have to question what the board were up to, it is up to them to annoint/challenge the strategy preented by the CEO.
Well said. Its one thing to own up and say we were incredibly dumb and couldn't see the wood for the trees but people like Tony Carter who presided over years of mediocrity and fiascos at Fletcher's need to be held accountable. Just get on with it and say, we stuffed up, its unacceptable, fall on your sword and give people with fresh idea's a go. The fact this weak, directionless and incompetent board are all staying on speaks for itself in terms of whether this is even worth considering as an investment. The truth is the current board ran out of idea's many, many years ago.
Quote from: Basil on Sep 26, 2024, 04:44 PMWell said. Its one thing to own up and say we were incredibly dumb and couldn't see the wood for the trees but people like Tony Carter who presided over years of mediocrity and fiascos at Fletcher's need to be held accountable. Just get on with it and say, we stuffed up, its unacceptable, fall on your sword and give people with fresh idea's a go. The fact this weak, directionless and incompetent board are all staying on speaks for itself in terms of whether this is even worth considering as an investment. The truth is the current board ran out of idea's many, many years ago.
They do have a good portfolio of sites, they just need someone like Rod Duke (a competent retailer who never rests on his laurels or has rushes of blood to the head, and watches every dollar). They had ideas beyond their station and took their eye of the ball big time, and were not restrained or corrected by the Board until the damage had been done. Tony Carter is no fool, but you cannot deny that he was part of a Board that gave Grayston way too much rope, which has cost shareholders dearly. What is the point of such a Board? On the evidence of their (in)competence they deserve to be sent packing, they have presided over a slow moving train crash obvious to everyone but them!
Red Sheds FY25 sales down 5.3%
Food category sales were up ~30% meaning 'core'/'traditional' sales were down ~14%
Journeee says they stuffed up ......yes John big time ....incompetent some might say
Now Journee raving on about learning from competitors and then "...incorporating those things and "hopefully with a twist that's a bit more authentically Kiwi and resonates a bit more"."
And apparently Journee's focus is on "getting back to retail fundamentals that focus on the category strategy and what customers want". He said customers were missing the "newness, the excitement, the on-trend products" that don't normally turn up in the so-called "continuity range".
And believe it or not the customers are "responding to our offer and coming back. That's improving, so we are winning that," he said.
I think Journee's dreaming ......once a business sinks to the depths of despair like the Red Sheds they are unlikely to recover and if they do it's a long painful process.
Note: quotes from Business Desk article
Both Craig's and FB are in agreement in notes out today
Underperform IE SELL. Both with tp below current sp.
Craigs say
No guidance was provided for FY25, however WHS commented that sales and gross margin have remained under pressure through the first 6-weeks of trading. Despite claiming to have regained some market share in early FY25, there are very few signs to suggest improved performance across the Group.
Hi shareguy, what do Craigs say about SPK?
That's some rave from Dame Joan .....pity his exceptional service over 12 years has seen WHS fget to where it is today
Quote from: Crackity on Oct 15, 2024, 08:49 AM"On behalf of the entire Board, I would like to extend our gratitude for his invaluable contribution in decimating our share price.
ROFL.. I actually quite like their new catchy new T.V. advertisements. If that doesn't boost their sales a bit you can turn the lights out, its all over.
You guys reckon this add campaign is any good ? Could it stop the rot for a while ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaFLIaimlsM
Yes catchy tunes Basil perhaps that's what's needed heartland seem to like catchy tunes in their adverts also could be interesting to see the next results now they have dumped torpedo and all the other crap .
Quote from: Basil on Oct 15, 2024, 10:06 AMROFL.. I actually quite like their new catchy new T.V. advertisements. If that doesn't boost their sales a bit you can turn the lights out, its all over.
You guys reckon this add campaign is any good ? Could it stop the rot for a while ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaFLIaimlsM
Comments are interesting
Collie owners think dog didn't want to be there
Best one though - Bob the Builder did it better
Quote from: winner (n) on Oct 15, 2024, 01:04 PMComments are interesting
Collie owners think dog didn't want to be there
I reckon they should have asked GNE if they could borrow the Beagle from their adds. This is a lot better inclusion of a very cute dog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOC0FMl0OIs Comments are turned off on that add, maybe the public thought it was stupid lol
Anything is better than the poor st Bernard in the A N Z Ben & Amy ad even a Beagle .
Time to start a separate thread for best catchy advert to Inspire shoppers
One of the oldest warehouse stores in Pakuranga is closing with staff to lose their jobs. Kmart,Temu,road works for the busway and the newly opened Panda Mart final nail in the coffin.
Before Panda mart, WHS and countdown the main "attraction"
Don't know how what's left will survive.
When the Bus Hub is finished might bring in a few more????
Quote from: Shareguy on Oct 24, 2024, 03:44 PMOne of the oldest warehouse stores in Pakuranga is closing with staff to lose their jobs. Kmart,Temu,road works for the busway and the newly opened Panda Mart final nail in the coffin.
I remember you telling me the place was like a morgue a while back. Their very old New Lynn store which is closest, also has a feel to it that can perhaps best be described as it feels like it's on borrowed time. I suspect there are a large number of older stores around the country that will suffer the same fate in the years ahead. My contention is that brands have a life cycle and the WHS is a very, very old and tired brand and in systemic decline.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/441484
Trading update - Q1 sales are down -2.5% on the same period last year.
Quote from: Ferg on Nov 08, 2024, 09:44 AMhttps://www.nzx.com/announcements/441484
Trading update - Q1 sales are down -2.5% on the same period last year.
Indeed, personally I can see no reason to have $ invested at this point of time, might checkin again in 12 months time, leave a few $ on call if any interest and get some sort of return in the mean time.
It's all okay because we are doing less worse than we were lol.
FB latest is grim reading. Underperform ie sell $.90
Norman's might rue turning down $1.60
Might be trading at less than half that soon.
I see they made quite a big deal in their announcement about bringing down everyday prices...down 7% year on year from memory.
Last year the net margin was razor thin already.
Forbar - forecast the group to be broadly break-even in FY25, and to suspend dividends until FY26.
They probably right
So shareholders the sacrificial lamb again with no divvies. Are the hoards of fat cats earning $200K plus giving up any of their salary? Are the directors foregoing any of their fees?
Far too many pigs with their snout in the trough. It's just a retailer, they're not rocket scientists.
They need some external hard nosed accountant to really get stuck in and trim all the fat. I think I know someone who would be really good lol
At AGM today Joan was all excited about the changes being made in Red Sheds
Had to laugh at this bit from a Businessdesk article -
One on-trend item that the Warehouse has picked up on is the EVA beach tote – a customisable beach bag that has gained prominence on social media and featured in Withers' PowerPoint presentation to shareholders.
The waterproof bag is retailing at $25 at the Warehouse and $19 online at Kmart.
But it's all OK as this followed
Journee said bags at the Warehouse and Kmart were not "like for like" as the Warehouse had different sizes, and despite the price differential customers were "telling us that they loved it".
"I think that's important for us to continue to lean into - and we'll find our own way through what value trend and excitement means for our customer base," he said.
Hey Winner, your mate Joan is leaving in Novcember next year....but its all okay because we have Tony Carter of MFB, AIR and FBU "fame" should that be "ignominy"...yes I think so, joining the board.
Our ecosystem goals were too ambitious. That's polite corporate speak for:, we finally after all these years woke up and smelled the coffee and realized Nick Grayston had no idea whatsoever what he was doing.
https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/442474/attachment/432615/442474-432615.pdf
Lots of talk about turning around the ship and shareholders deserve better. Hmmm...seems to be a very common theme with certain companies lately.
Wondered where the Nescafe 180 gm jars of coffee went.The board giving them the sniff test.
Pity, as out of loyalty I went to buy two jars on Monday at $9.00 per jar.
Out of stock.Really.?
Forced me to buy at New World using my club card at $8.99 per jar.
I didn't realise how much of a juggernaut the KMart NZ business has been. Over the last 10 years (from FY14 to FY24), it's grown from $263m sales to exactly $1,000m. The CAGR has maintained at 12% over the last five years — impressive given that includes a large cyclical downturn for the NZ consumer. This growth hasn't been at the expense of margins either.
Over those 10 years, The Warehouse Red Sheds have only grown modestly from $1,665m to $1,792m. Kmart taking huge swaths of market share.
Yeah, the warehouse and kmart seem to be chalk and cheese - at least in my experience.
Quote from: Goob on Dec 25, 2024, 12:11 PMOver those 10 years, The Warehouse Red Sheds have only grown modestly from $1,665m to $1,792m. Kmart taking huge swaths of market share.
Plugged that into the RBNZ inflation calculator https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/about-monetary-policy/inflation-calculator and in constant inflation adjusted dollar terms, (real terms) WHS sales should have grown from $1,665m to $2,179m over the last decade. My contention is that WHS is a company in systemic decline. Share price tells you that to. Was $4 a few years ago now struggling to hold $1 and at risk of being removed from the NZX50.
By comparison a retailer that's really humming, Glassons Au sales have grown from $36m ten years ago to ~ $250m, (my forecast) in FY25 a ten year CAGR of just over 21% ! and if they keep growing at that rate for the next 5 years their sales in FY30 will be ~ $650m !
Disc: HLG my largest holding, very slightly higher than TRA and I sold out of WHS several years ago at $4.10....ask me how pleased I am to have sold out at that price lol
I went into the Warehouse to get some small things for my nieces - I was shocked by how expensive everything was. Makeup/skincare items were all $30+. Its certainly not the place "where everyone gets a bargain". I was looking for items priced under $10, what little was available in that price range had already sold out. If I wanted to spend $30 per item I would go to the Chemist Warehouse and buy branded items, not the fake knock off stuff the Warehouse is currently selling.
JB HiFi NZ sales up 20% on pcp for half year yo December
Some from new stores but same store sales pretty positive as well.
2nd Qtrstronger than 1st quarter ad well so things oolong better for them
Can't imagine Noel Leeming doing anything like this...still going backwards I reckon
Easy to see whose winning and whose losing eh
Oh dear, another update
H1 EBIT say $18m and 'best estimate of H2 FY25 EBIT is that it will be broadly in line with the H2 FY24 EBIT* loss of circa $14 million."
$18m less $14m not much eh
And that's EBIT ......suppose a sizeable full year LOSS at NPAT level
But never mind as they have a Fighting Fit Plan
What a disaster but the real sad thing is they don't seem to blame themselves for this mess .....it's the economy stupid.
https://announcements.nzx.com/attachment/438806.pdf
Gosh what an absoluite shocker. How on earth do you sell circa $3.2 Billion of goods and make a loss ?
Ever thought about putting your prices up lol Honestly, I think management are total Muppets.
By contrast, last time I looked K Mart N.Z. sold about $1 Billion and made from memory something like $100m !
The entire board needs to resign. Its clear they have no idea whatsoever how to run a profitable business.
On the other hand, we need to support the WHS and shop there. It's quite clear the Tindall foundation's goal is to run the world's largest chain of stores on a charitable basis and sell things at cost or below lol
I wonder how much value the Rainbow Tick is achieving.
It's pretty clear that WHS's business model is broken and they don't have the Board or Management that knows how to fix it.
Briscoe's and KMART offer a much better retail experience for the same, or better, price. And unlike WHS they are very focussed on product margins rather than numbers of stores and turnover.
WHS need to look very closely at the performance of each and every outlet, downsize to fit demand and at the same time get rid of the zero margin tat that fills their shelves and look to compete in product lines that actually make money. None of this is rocket science, but there's no excuse whatsoever, as has been said, for a company that contrives to make a loss from over $3 billion in annual sales.
No dividend for shareholders this half surely?
On a positive note. Could be good for a new supermarket chain that needs established retail footprints to set up in NZ.
Quote from: Minimoke on Mar 03, 2025, 11:46 AMOn a positive note. Could be good for a new supermarket chain that needs established retail footprints to set up in NZ.
Yep, excellent idea. Maybe the Government could buyout WHS and lease the sites at a discount to LIDL etc? Could be worth it if it finally breaks up the supermarket duopoly.
But hang on - that would require the Government to "intervene" in the economy, something the NATS are pathologically against. >:(
You'd think that our Joan would resign now ....years too late
Let the My Food Bag man or the Ryman man take over
Incredible how long I/we have been bleating in about how Kmart is eating their lunch, FOR YEARS, and yet nothing is done about it. One of the most poorly run companies on the NZX.
Quote from: LoungeLizard on Mar 03, 2025, 12:07 PMYep, excellent idea. Maybe the Government could buyout WHS and lease the sites at a discount to LIDL etc? Could be worth it if it finally breaks up the supermarket duopoly.
But hang on - that would require the Government to "intervene" in the economy, something the NATS are pathologically against. >:(
Market cap of $357m.
Are they still opposed to Tindall's plans??
In full result preso last Sep they proudly showed that they were sort of holding market share
WHS use Datamine to come up with a market size they call Core Retail (takes out supermerkets, cafes, fuel travel etc) and then calculate their share of that. They do take out their own grocery sales.
Over FY24 average market share was 14.7%
Using Datamine data and estimating what WHS grocery sales are I reckon over the last six months Warehouse Group market share has fallen to about 12%
Jeez 15% to 12% share is some drop ...no wonder things are so bad
Can't entirely blame the economy
https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/448775/attachment/440059/448775-440059.pdf
Speaking of a business fighting back, feels like an half year announcement fighting against itself. Every bad line item is paired with an optimistic ode for the future :)
"Clearly there's more to do," says Dame Joan.
Quote from: Gerald on Mar 21, 2025, 09:47 AMhttps://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/448775/attachment/440059/448775-440059.pdf
Speaking of a business fighting back, feels like an half year announcement fighting against itself. Every bad line item is paired with an optimistic ode for the future :)
"Clearly there's more to do," says Dame Joan.
"The turnaround starts to gain momentum". But later on they say they expect the same EBIT loss for the second half of FY25 as they got for the same period last year, (despite I note, much higher prevailing interest rates and being in the depths of a recession last year). Forgive me Joan, I must be thick, where's the evidence of this turnaround you claim is starting to gain momentum ?
But wait there's more "
and building the foundations for long term growth". Hmmmm...can I have a Tui to go with that claim please Joan ? You must be kidding darling, the WHS has been losing market share for years. The main thing is you and all your fellow directors and senior management are still taking full pay for your "wonderfully talented" services...please don't worry about shareholders getting nothing....oh wait. I see you don't and there's no dividend.
https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/448775/attachment/440060/448775-440060.pdf
Oh well...at least there's a new apparel line of "Kia Kaha" being rolled out so shareholders can buy that, (it would be too much to ask for a free T shirt), and staunchly hold on to the belief that things are going to get better. FY26 will be our year. I am sure the Pascoe family are "absolutely delighted" with how things are going. I see NTA is now 49.9 cps. Arguably, all they're really worth.
Finance guy told analysts the momentum has weakened in March ...
.that's why the H2 guidance didn't change for the better
Their real issue is their leases.
Not sure why they are so keen to reduce prices and margins in a race to the bottom? Doesn't make any sense to me. Nothing wrong with their sales considering the depths of the recession...just too keen to make sales at lower margins and operate at ostensibly a breakeven level.
WHS got about $75m of 'aged' stock so a lot more price reductions to come methinks
Quote from: lorraina on Mar 21, 2025, 05:17 PMTheir real issue is their leases.
Over $130m annual least cost ...over 4% of sales ...no wonder a low margin business
And
Need to sell gears more to support that level of leases
And talk of costs wage bill is nearly 17% of sales ...very high when gross margin is only 31%
Razor gang desperately needed at head office level. Still, far too many pigs with their snouts in the trough collecting ridiculous salaries while shareholders get nothing.
Journee wax on 1News last night
Laughing and joking saying it's all going to plan
Didn't look too worried .... Joan should tell him to act more circumspect in public.
little electric delivery vans roaming the country side from a warehouse logistics hub out on some highway some where taking stuff to your door...
its all dead... the whole model is doomed...
the EV delivery robot is made in where... who knows... the logistic hub is owned by who? who knowns....
Quote from: winner (n) on Mar 22, 2025, 08:13 AMJournee wax on 1News last night
Laughing and joking saying it's all going to plan
Didn't look too worried .... Joan should tell him to act more circumspect in public.
I saw that too. Shareholders are just an inconvenience for them. As long as they collect their fat salaries and achieve their ESG objectives, you'd easily be forgiven for thinking they couldn't care less about shareholders.
WHS can boast of sales growth all they like, but that's not their problem - it's declining margins and profits. Gross profit margin of 31% (and falling) is very low. Briscoe's GP margin is over 40%. Briscoe's made 68m last year, WHS an adjustment NPAT of $19m. With margins still falling I can't see that changing too much, regardless of total sales.
Hey the market likes it.....up 3.8% on the news!! ;D
Albeit off their all-time low of 79c. ;)
Uninvestable, unshoppable.
Something has got to happen sometime...... ::)
Not so sure about un-shoppable. Un-investable and in structural systemic decline?, probably. Basically they're running as a giant chain of Salvation Army stores running as a not for profit charity, plus or minus a few rounding errors on the profit and loss statement lol. I actually think that's Stephen Tindall's goal now, to be the ultimate Sally's store, tick the huge ESG box and sell heaps of stuff at cost. I jest, but if you read the essence of their reports you will see they take great pride in selling things to families for as low a cost as possible. You'd be forgiven for thinking that's their primary goal. We need to shop there and support our worthy charities that keep people employed lol
Self blurb from Linkedin:
Goal-driven main board member holding the position of Chief Financial Officer. With a proven history of achieving both financial and non-financial business model transformation, he uses his default design and system thinking mindset to navigate change. His extensive experience in managing listed companies spans various disciplines, offering a comprehensive understanding of the various corporate domains. Fluent in public speaking, he speaks confidently to investors and other key stakeholders to positively influence the corporate brand image. His innovative digital skill set and entrepreneurial mindset enables him to craft ingenious solutions that not only unlock new business opportunities but also address critical challenges head-on. His strategic design approach to solving problems empowers him to construct, optimise, and drive the evolution of business processes to unlock trapped value lying dormant within organisations. Passionate about the intersection of people, process and technology, he sees a world of work augmented by the convergence of these key areas of effective corporate execution. He leads teams with strength and compassion, building trust through open and frequent communication.
Sounds like they have been using him to write those powerful market announcements.
Wow that's bad. What a load of gobbledegook
Great they are promoting the CFO who has been in charge of finances while all previous fiasco's played out. That's just like promoting the train driver who crashed the train to chief safety officer of the railway. What could possibly go wrong lol
Quote from: Basil on May 28, 2025, 02:26 PMGreat they are promoting the CFO who has been in charge of finances while all previous fiasco's played out. That's just like promoting the train driver who crashed the train to chief safety officer of the railway. What could possibly go wrong lol
Incorrect Basil - As per today's announcement he joined WHS in April last year, just before previous management was dumped. In fact it may have been the case that he played a part in ringing the alarm bell given the timing.
"Mark Stirton joined TWG as Chief Financial Officer in April 2024 and has played a fundamental role in assisting the Interim Group Chief Executive Officer, John Journee in making the necessary changes to strengthen the Group's performance."
Opps, my bad. Maybe there is hope he can turn this ship around but that's a punt I am happy to leave to others. The word seems to be that WHS is getting booted out of the NZX50 on 20 June.
Fancy getting an accountant to be CEO ...accountants never make good retailers ...it's basically not in their makeup
Been in NZ for a year now so no doubt has a deep understanding of the NZ retail scene.
Worse decision by a company since one thought an accountant could run a retirement and care business
Quote from: winner (n) on May 29, 2025, 12:09 AMWorse decision by a company since one thought an accountant could run a retirement and care business
Scott Scoullar
Chief Executive Officer Summerset | CA, FCPA, BCA
Putting the CA into care?
A bit tongue in cheek there winner...pretty sure you referencing OCA
Quote from: Basil on Mar 21, 2025, 02:51 PM"The turnaround starts to gain momentum". But later on they say they expect the same EBIT loss for the second half of FY25 as they got for the same period last year, (despite I note, much higher prevailing interest rates and being in the depths of a recession last year). Forgive me Joan, I must be thick, where's the evidence of this turnaround you claim is starting to gain momentum ?
But wait there's more "and building the foundations for long term growth". Hmmmm...can I have a Tui to go with that claim please Joan ? You must be kidding darling, the WHS has been losing market share for years. The main thing is you and all your fellow directors and senior management are still taking full pay for your "wonderfully talented" services...please don't worry about shareholders getting nothing....oh wait. I see you don't and there's no dividend.
https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/448775/attachment/440060/448775-440060.pdf
Oh well...at least there's a new apparel line of "Kia Kaha" being rolled out so shareholders can buy that, (it would be too much to ask for a free T shirt), and staunchly hold on to the belief that things are going to get better. FY26 will be our year. I am sure the Pascoe family are "absolutely delighted" with how things are going. I see NTA is now 49.9 cps. Arguably, all they're really worth.
Closed at all time low of 78 cents as it slipped out of the NZX50 yesterday. WHS is riddled with problems and in systemic decline. I remain of the view it's un-investable. I read in the paper a while back that after virtually destroying the company and burning through over $100m of shareholders funds on failed concepts, Nick Grayston has sold his multimillion dollar Remuera home and left the country. Where's the accountability at the board level for appointing him ?
The board are absolute Muppets.
Quote from: winner (n) on May 29, 2025, 12:09 AMFancy getting an accountant to be CEO ...accountants never make good retailers ...it's basically not in their makeup
Yes yes, but as you vell know. Accountants are excellent at dealing vith receiverships!
RB
Quote from: Basil on Jun 20, 2025, 01:15 PMClosed at all time low of 78 cents as it slipped out of the NZX50 yesterday. WHS is riddled with problems and in systemic decline. I remain of the view it's un-investable. I read in the paper a while back that after virtually destroying the company and burning through over $100m of shareholders funds on failed concepts, Nick Grayston has sold his multimillion dollar Remuera home and left the country. Where's the accountability at the board level for appointing him ?
The board are absolute Muppets.
Board chairman is stepping down
Quote from: LaserEyeKiwi on Jun 20, 2025, 08:15 PMBoard chairman is stepping down
The woke culture runs so deep it won't make any difference.
Fresh Warehouse downgrade (or not?), always a goldmine.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/454277
"the cold has set in"
"sales momentum has returned...encouraging progress"
Dame Joan is off to greener pastures.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/456007
" It has been an extremely difficult last few years and I am deeply saddened that shareholders have been profoundly impacted as we have navigated the wider economic environment and had to pivot away from some of the strategic choices that the Group embarked upon. "
New chair has been a director for 12 years, CEO for 1 and director of "TheMarket" for 5 years. Seems like a great culture of accountability?
Is it a case of the rats leaving the sinking ship??
NZ Shareholders Association think Journee as Chairva good move
But somewhere in the article it did say 'the jury is still out' whether recent appointments will start creating value
Quote from: winner (n) on Aug 02, 2025, 05:05 PMNZ Shareholders Association think Journee as Chairva good move
"...a pragmatic decision to preserve the momentum of transformation rather than lose institutional knowledge at a critical juncture."
—NZSA Comment (July 2025)
"A Pragmatic Decision", "Momentum of transformation" and "Critical Juncture" sound like band names on a progressive metal/industrial rock triple billing...
Journee's non-independent status is problematic and I'm a surprised that NZSA has looked past that so easily.
Guys over on channel produced this hit song Enpty Shelves Blues
Really cool
Quote from: Hxxxxx1105771https://share-ai.singgenix.com/?token=0MhI%2BV0V9WD7Xrk4sB0aeZz0%2Fsx%2FQlz6jJLOCZ8Fg%2BghdIlur0qb6g%3D%3D&musicType=0
I hope this works ����
😎
Quote from: winner (n) on Aug 14, 2025, 09:05 AMGuys over on channel produced this hit song Enpty Shelves Blues
Really cool
😎
excellent!
So good it should be played at the WHS AGM.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/459927
They're saying "...early signs of improvement, particularly in the second half, with improved sales and margin trends."
At a glance, it still looks like they sells lotsa stuff but make no money from it.
Bad result out
Over $3 billion in sales but negative operating cash flow of $23m ....and $12m of capex so cash burn of $35m. Good effort guys.
The usual mention of market share gains seems to be missing so assume they lost share
Guru analysts mentioned T briefing they can't see a pathway to profitability in near future
Yes $3.1b sales and made $1.3m profit
They have lost their way in a very crowded market.
Their locations have value so wouldn't be surprised to see something happen there.
Yet another disastrous year for shareholders. You'd be forgiven for wondering if the Tindall Foundation 's main goal is to run the business as a charity for the good of the staff and all Kiwi's ?
Quote from: Shareguy on Oct 03, 2025, 08:46 AMYes $3.1b sales and made $1.3m profit
They have lost their way in a very crowded market.
Their locations have value so wouldn't be surprised to see something happen there.
Most probably exiting leases will most likely be problematic and costly.
We need a third grocery participant with scale. Also the Normans have a large holding. Will be interesting as to what happens. Would be a shame to see it go.
In Christchurch The Normans have stores at the major Malls,Riccarton,Hornby,Northlands and The Palms.
I very much doubt any WHS stores would be of interest to them.The Normans are not at Barrington or Eastgate Malls,[where WHS are],and that shows how astute they are.
Yes we need a third grocery chain,but again I doubt it will happen.
Own a single supermarket = make millions per year.
Own the entire Warehouse company = make $1 million per year
Something is seriously f**king wrong here.
Relevant Interest (Ordinary Shares) Percentage from annual report
Sir Stephen Tindall 93,687,096 27.01%
The Tindall Foundation Inc 73,920,496 21.31%
James Pascoe Investments Limited 69,333,940 19.99%
Thanks Shareguy. The 48% controlled by Sir Stephen Tindall and his foundation is problematic in that his goals are not necessarily alligned with other shareholders.
Almost as problematic is the Pascoe's stake who effectively blocked the reconstruction of the company from morphing into a third grocery player in the market.
Between their combined shareholding of nearly 70% other shareholders are in the invidious position of being marooned on a directionless ship adrift at sea. Worse is that management and the board don't appear to know where they are or even where they're supposed to be going.
WHS management have a LOT to prove to shareholders. In my opinion their cost out program needs to be a REALLY serious one and management have to prove to shareholders that this is a company that's still an investable proposition. The jury will be out for quite some time.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/462730
Quote from: Basil on Nov 17, 2025, 11:47 AMWHS management have a LOT to prove to shareholders. In my opinion their cost out program needs to be a REALLY serious one and management have to prove to shareholders that this is a company that's still an investable proposition. The jury will be out for quite some time.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/462730
True - and the current report is best to see as how bad it can get. Revenue up by less than rate of inflation (i.e. it dropped) and earnings down. Not quite sure, what they made in Q1 2025, but overall they still had a loss in 2025. Dropping earnings on a loss doesn'tsound that flash.
Not quite clear what they intend to save ... sounds more like the plan to build a plan. Good to hear that they want to keep the fist line active, but lets face it - are they that active at the moment? Who remembers the last time they got good client support at the warehouse?
But hey, can't be that difficult to make money ... HLG (and even Briscoes) make money - and not that bad.
Just follow whatever they are doing ...
The issue I'm alluding to in post #630 above is that it would seem Tindall's, (sorry Sir Stephen Tindall's) main goal is to sell ordinary Kiwi's the basics at the lowest possible price. If you read through their annual reports this goal seems to be at the forefront of everything they do.
You'd easily be forgiven for wondering if the current arrangement of basically trading at break even, (ostensibly not unlike a giant chain of not for profit Salvation Army shops but in this case selling new stuff), fits the Tindall foundations goals perfectly ? Not only are they selling products to ordinary Kiwi's effectively at cost and helping Kiwi customers make ends meet, they're employing about 11,000 staff about 700 hundred of whom earn over $100K so by classic "B Corp" goals where staff, customers and the planet are just as important as shareholders, this company is kicking some really serious social do-good goals !
No doubt the board will farewell Joan Withers with a huge thankyou for her contributions over the years. I will remember her for being in the chair when WHS was giving ~ $60m of Covid subsides back to the Govt because Jacinda told WHS off for not being a good corporate citizen and for being so supportive of the "rocket scientist" Nick Graystone who flushed well north of $100m down the toilet with his failed agile and the market strategies not to forget Torpedo 7.
My opinion is WHS is a tired old brand that's been losing market share for years. K Mart, Panda Mart, Costco, Temu and others are steadily eating their lunch and the WHS is in systemic decline.
Agree Basil, was there today, Warehouse more staff than customers and K mart pumping. Hopefully they survive.
Quote from: Shareguy on Nov 17, 2025, 08:37 PMAgree Basil, was there today, Warehouse more staff than customers and K mart pumping. Hopefully they survive.
I decided spur of the moment to buy a book the other day. First paper one I have bought in years. Vaguely recalled warehouse sold books so popped into one to see if they had it. It took a while to find the location but Kudos they did have it.
But other than that it seemed a very tired, half empty store with, as you say more staff than customers. And those staff seemed a bit over it.
My local Mitre 10 is my favourite shop and I am there pretty much every weekend. The difference in layout, vibe, selection, lighting and customer service is like chalk and cheese.
Perhaps if the C E O gets his way the lighting /vibe might improve somewhat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTFsZGDMWyo&t=281s
also the book prices and selection are a huge improvement especially for New Zealand
Quote from: Auto Rower on Nov 18, 2025, 11:22 AMPerhaps if the C E O gets his way the lighting /vibe might improve somewhat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTFsZGDMWyo&t=281s
also the book prices and selection are a huge improvement especially for New Zealand
I don't know about that. They have a very weird marketing plan. You can spend (why would you?) $39.00 for "A Different Kind Of Power: A Memoir by Jacinda Ardern" (grossly over priced in my opinion). And then you can buy the second one for 50% off. Why would they think their shoppers so disliked people they think an Adern memoir would make a great gift.
Quote from: Minimoke on Nov 19, 2025, 12:37 PMI don't know about that. They have a very weird marketing plan. You can spend (why would you?) $39.00 for "A Different Kind Of Power: A Memoir by Jacinda Ardern" (grossly over priced in my opinion). And then you can buy the second one for 50% off. Why would they think their shoppers so disliked people they think an Adern memoir would make a great gift.
Ha funny that minimoke perhaps they knew you would be popping in to check the prices and relevant staffing levels again .
Although I must agree that any Ardern book is overpriced
I had to buy the wife "A different Kind of Power" by Jacinda Ardern because there were 265 in front of us on ChCh library's HOLD list.Yes bought it from WHS for $29.99 as it was $49.99 elsewhere.
Also had to buy her "Nobody's Girl ",by Virginia Giuffre as were would have been No.254 on ChCh library's Hold list Paid $40 for it at local Paper Plus as WHS did not stock it when I was buying.Had to wait 10days as it had sold out the day it was released.
Wife enjoyed Jacinda's book and she lent it to a friend before I had a chance to read it.She did the same with "The Rise & Fall of the House of York".
I popped into the local Warehouse for some gardening and fishing items.....the price & quality is actually ok and they had a buy 1 get 50% off #2 deal. I also got a good wetsuit at about the quarter* the cost of a Rip Curl equivalent. I'm converted.
*Body glove 3/2 steamer cost me $149; Rip Curl equivalent is priced from $380-$830 (I kid you not!)
https://www.ripcurl.co.nz/collections/mens-steamers?filters=mfield_feature_thickness%3A3%2F2+mm
https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/body-glove-mens-full-wetsuit-blackgrey/RM110164492-1M.html
It is probably discounted given winter is over but I don't mind buying and holding for 6+ months given I won't be surfing next winter in my spring suit!
Quote from: Ferg on Nov 20, 2025, 09:10 AMI popped into the local Warehouse for some gardening and fishing items.....the price & quality is actually ok and they had a buy 1 get 50% off #2 deal. I also got a good wetsuit at about the quarter* the cost of a Rip Curl equivalent. I'm converted.
*Body glove 3/2 steamer cost me $149; Rip Curl equivalent is priced from $380-$830 (I kid you not!)
https://www.ripcurl.co.nz/collections/mens-steamers?filters=mfield_feature_thickness%3A3%2F2+mm
https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/body-glove-mens-full-wetsuit-blackgrey/RM110164492-1M.html
It is probably discounted given winter is over but I don't mind buying and holding for 6+ months given I won't be surfing next winter in my spring suit!
I didnt even notice the Warehouse had a Garden Section. I just pop down to Miter10 because they have a huge selection of plants, tools and fertilisers etc.
I suppose I'm a bit of a fishing snob and wouldn't even think about buying gear from the warehouse. I'd sooner support my local specialist shop such as Fisherman's Loft whose staff have knowledge of the fishing scene. A test would be to ask a Warehouse staff member which lure they thought best for a river run Rainbow. (and if you want to learn how to sell stuff in a retail environment visit a fishing tackle shop - they are masters at extracting every dollar out of your wallet!)
Quote from: Minimoke on Nov 20, 2025, 09:39 AMI didnt even notice the Warehouse had a Garden Section. I just pop down to Miter10 because they have a huge selection of plants, tools and fertilisers etc.
I suppose I'm a bit of a fishing snob and wouldn't even think about buying gear from the warehouse. I'd sooner support my local specialist shop such as Fisherman's Loft whose staff have knowledge of the fishing scene. A test would be to ask a Warehouse staff member which lure they thought best for a river run Rainbow. (and if you want to learn how to sell stuff in a retail environment visit a fishing tackle shop - they are masters at extracting every dollar out of your wallet!)
Slightly off topic sorry....I should probably do a price comparison but even with the SmartMate card I find the Mitre 10 prices high. I did a quick mental check versus Bunnings for ceramic outdoor pots and The Warehouse was ok.
Fishing...I was using The Warehouse for the most basic of items but I noticed a number of brands were the same as the local fishing stores. I hear you about sales....the fishing (and kayak) guys are good.
But back to the Warehouse.....The market hasn't reacted to the latest trading update by the WHS
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/462730
which in my opinion was pretty good in the circumstances...it was ok...it wasn't bad...I've seen worse. BTW these phrases are not synonymous when discussing the quality of a meal.... :)
Quote from: lorraina on Nov 19, 2025, 09:58 PMI had to buy the wife "A different Kind of Power" by Jacinda Ardern because there were 265 in front of us on ChCh library's HOLD list.Yes bought it from WHS for $29.99 as it was $49.99 elsewhere.
Also had to buy her "Nobody's Girl ",by Virginia Giuffre as were would have been No.254 on ChCh library's Hold list Paid $40 for it at local Paper Plus as WHS did not stock it when I was buying.Had to wait 10days as it had sold out the day it was released.
Wife enjoyed Jacinda's book and she lent it to a friend before I had a chance to read it.She did the same with "The Rise & Fall of the House of York".
A book about 'the rise and fall of the Warehouse' would make for good reading....by say some NBR jurno or Jenny Ruth. Plenty of material there. I'd give it a read.
Quote from: Ferg on Nov 20, 2025, 10:12 AMSlightly off topic sorry....
I should probably do a price comparison but even with the SmartMate card I find the Mitre 10 prices high. I did a quick mental check versus Bunnings for ceramic outdoor pots and The Warehouse was ok.
Fishing...I was using The Warehouse for the most basic of items but I noticed a number of brands were the same as the local fishing stores. I hear you about sales....the fishing (and kayak) guys are good.
But back to the Warehouse.....
The market hasn't reacted to the latest trading update by the WHS
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/462730
which in my opinion was pretty good in the circumstances...it was ok...it wasn't bad...I've seen worse. BTW these phrases are not synonymous when discussing the quality of a meal.... :)
There is more to retail than price. I haven't tested these in the warehouse because I dont shop there often enough. But If I go to say Mitre10
- there is some one the at the door to welcome me
- the Customer service desk is right there
- I can ask any staff member where I would find 9 inch nails and they will say Aisle 11 bay 6.
- When I get to Aisle 11 bay 6 I will probably have 3 choices of 9 inch nails to select from.
- Because all the shelves are full I might pick up a pack of 6 inch nails while I there (I am easily tempted!)
- It might dawn on me I need a new hammer and that aisle is logically located near to the nail isles.
- Going through checkout is fast because they are staffed relative to customer demand.
- I can pick up a sausage and donate to a local community good as I make my way to the car.
All this will no doubt cause teh price to be higher.
If I want to shop based on price I'll just use the internet. Temu will probably be the right place to go.
I am happy that you like to visit MITRE ten for a shopping experience as many do ,it is a good solid kiwi business as opposed to the damn aussies that I prefer bunnings .
You definitely shop at a different miter ten than me ,as all the m 10s I go in are full of failed retail workers that cannot get a job elsewhere ( some good friend's ) whom have very little idea whatsoever & give advice that is legally & factually incorrect, they are friendly and lots of them willing to talk all day on subjects they should not because of their lack of knowledge or understanding.
A very friendly shop with lots of six inch /150mm nails that are not of much use .
Enjoy m 10 but i will stick with Bunnings both for price & range of products staff and sausage sizzles same everywhere imho
Quote from: Fiordland Moose on Nov 20, 2025, 10:23 AMA book about 'the rise and fall of the Warehouse' would make for good reading....by say some NBR jurno or Jenny Ruth. Plenty of material there. I'd give it a read.
Here's the story of The Warehouse Group over last 20 years:
Revenue:
Year Total Red Sheds Stationery Noelleeming Torpedo7
2025 $3.09b $1.80b $226.0m $1.00b Sold
2024 $3.00b $1.80b $231.9m $1.00b (Sold Mar '24)
2023 $3.40b $1.90b $249.0m $1.10b $162.2m
2022 $3.29b $1.73b $249.7m $1.10b $171.5m
2021 $3.41b $1.78b $275.0m $1.13b $158.7m
2020 $3.20b $1.68b $269.0m $1.00b $150.0m
2019 $3.07b $1.70b $268.6m $924.0m $172.0m
2018 $2.99b $1.70b $263.8m $880.5m $163.4m
2017 $2.98b $1.70b $278.0m $810.0m $157.8m
2016 $2.92b $1.70b $260.0m $750.0m $145.0m
2015 $2.77b $1.70b $256.0m $741.9m $132.0m
2014 $2.65b $1.67b $250.6m $620.5m $107.7m
2013 $2.24b $1.59b $231.8m $390.7m* N/A
2012 $1.73b $1.54b $200.0m N/A N/A
2011 $1.67b $1.49b $195.0m N/A N/A
2010 $1.48b $1.48b $190.0m N/A N/A
2009 $1.53b $1.53b ~$180m N/A N/A
2008 $1.74b $1.49b ~$190m N/A N/A
2007 $1.76b $1.53b ~$180m N/A N/A
2006 $1.72b $1.50b ~$190m N/A N/A
LEK - what's the Red Sheds CAGR over that time frame
Quote from: Crackity on Nov 20, 2025, 07:06 PMIt might have been the most expensive baby photo ever seen in New Zealand.
The Warehouse could face a fine in the millions of dollars after selling thousands of potentially dangerous toy cars.
But the retailer today said no actual harm resulted from the Roo Crew take-apart vehicle saga, which stemmed from a baby used to promote toys that were supposedly off-limits to infants.
The Commerce Commission last year charged The Warehouse Limited with Fair Trading Act breaches and said the toys posed a choking hazard to children under 3.
The regulator's lawyer Jacob Barry told the Auckland District Court the case exposed a flaw in The Warehouse's quality assurance systems.
"We've got frankly one of the largest toy retailers in the country that sold more than 12,000 potentially dangerous products into the market over a period of two years, all because of an error of judgment."
He queried how contrite the retailer really was.
"In many respects, The Warehouse doesn't think it's done much wrong at all."
lol - WHS the gift that keeps giving 🤔
However as I am now a new shareholder I should 🤫
At least they weren't selling asbestos play sand like Kmart
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 20, 2025, 03:21 PMLEK - what's the Red Sheds CAGR over that time frame
Pitiful I'm sure. Well under inflation. At least it went up I suppose.
Quote from: LaserEyeKiwi on Nov 20, 2025, 07:14 PMPitiful I'm sure. Well under inflation. At least it went up I suppose.
Red Sheds since 2004
Grown sales at 1.0% pa
Core Retail Sales in NZ have grown by 4.5% pa
Halved their market share from 3.8% to 1.9% of core retail
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 21, 2025, 07:42 AMRed Sheds since 2004
Grown sales at 1.0% pa
Core Retail Sales in NZ have grown by 4.5% pa
Halved their market share from 3.8% to 1.9% of core retail
Where are you getting your figures from for core retail growth? Can you share that data?
Quote from: LaserEyeKiwi on Nov 21, 2025, 08:12 AMWhere are you getting your figures from for core retail growth? Can you share that data?
Stats NZ Retail Trade data
Yeah you'll say Red Sheds not in every category but if nothing else its a good indicators of where overall retail sales have done over the years
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 21, 2025, 10:16 AMStats NZ Retail Trade data
Yeah you'll say Red Sheds not in every category but if nothing else its a good indicators of where overall retail sales have done over the years
Ah sorry yes - I saw the stats NZ figure and that didn't track with your 1.9% figure, but I failed to notice you were talking about red sheds alone.
WHS continues to state they have ~15% retail share, but not sure exactly what they are excluding there (obviously Hospo and fuel/motor vehicles etc, not sure if they including grocery though)
They used to use Retailwatch data from Datamine. Selected the categories they were competing in to come up with a share estimate.
Then they used dotlovesdata which is owned/controlled by ANZ. Possibly use that ANZ data you noticed that jewellery sales were up 11%.
I note WHS didn't mention market share ..must have declined lol
Ex Wgtn Mayor Justin Lester works for Dotlovesdata ...next time I se him I will ask how it works.
FYI - WHS AGM will be livestreamed today at 10am:
https://meetings.mpms.mufg.com/agm/whs25/register
Hope some shareholders give this woke board a good grilling.
I didn't get the chance to take notes on the Q&A, but I have to say I very much appreciated the new CEO's answers. They were sharp, to the point, and provided some good details. Happy to see Joan go as chairmen.
It's about 27% of our business at the moment, so it is an important category. It's probably the fastest-growing, but we're not native grocers. Part of it is that we're learning how to be a grocer."
He said the business was reviewing the category, but couldn't make any public comments on it yet.
"It's a difficult subject because I know how sensitive it is for everyone. Everyone wants the duopoly to go down and for us to win, but there's also things that we've got to strengthen and be good at in order to effectively win and compete."
WHS today - come on in Aldi or Lidl - the water is fine - competitors either have no clue or or milking it or both
Cool piece in BusinessDesk today.
Suppose some would say Simon is clueless when it comes to WHS
Never mind
Anyway, piece starts -
"This is the end ... " was the opening line to track 11 (the last song – side B) of The Doors' first album, The Doors, released Jan 4, 1967.
"This is the end, beautiful friend. This is the end, my only friend, the end".
The song is 11 minutes 41s of depression. Not wanting to set your Saturday morning off on the wrong foot, but it's good prep work and background music for the story below.
I read the lyrics and they are wild – the stuff about the mother and the father won't get past Victoria (my editor), so I will leave that for you and your choice of large language models to inquire.
The Warehouse - What an absolute shit show. The only thing this stock has consistently delivered on is trading at life lows.
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/markets/the-warehouse-is-cooked-everyone-knows-it
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 29, 2025, 08:32 AMThe Warehouse - What an absolute shit show. The only thing this stock has consistently delivered on is trading at life lows.
WHS is a bit like OCA and the Warriors..... heaps of holders/posters/fans hoping that one day they will rise from the ashes.
All have been uninvestable for ages IMO.
Quote from: Crackity on Nov 28, 2025, 09:04 PMIt's about 27% of our business at the moment, so it is an important category....come on in Aldi or Lidl - the water is fine - competitors either have no clue or or milking it or both
The Norman family with their 19% stake scuttled that proposed deal thirteen months ago which would have seen Tindall take over the company at $1.50 - $1.70 and repurpose it. With Tindall's son stepping down from the board at the annual meeting, that's a pretty ominous sign that ship has sailed and the Norman's delusional belief that the company was worth $2+ has scuttled any remaining prospect of minority shareholders salvaging any value from this aging dinosaur.
I almost feel sorry for shareholders. Might go down today and get a few summer T Shirts at $7 each...that'll help them out a bit but at that price you'd be forgiven for wondering if Tindall wants to run the company as a not for profit charity for the benefit of ordinary Kiwi's. Maybe that is his real agenda ?
For me I don't hold any great hopes for the WHS, but it may yet come to pass that some improvement would see it looking likely to regain a (NZX50 ?) ranking in 2026 that might help offer a SP lift. Don't see more than a 1 to 2% portfolio allocation at the most for me.
Anyways my little bit of interest in WHS had me visiting the Business Desk website, and then took on an annual subscription at the Black Friday $99 rate.
dscl: hold a few 100 WHS to keep a compass (an eye) on what comes next for the company, and the annual shareholder discount day might see me visiting the local red Shed in December for what I see as value buys on the day.
Anecdotally I think the Dunedin store might be well up on trade to where it was 12 months ago.
Quote from: winner (n) on Nov 29, 2025, 08:32 AMCool piece in BusinessDesk today.
Suppose some would say Simon is clueless when it comes to WHS
Never mind
Anyway, piece starts -
"This is the end ... " was the opening line to track 11 (the last song – side B) of The Doors' first album, The Doors, released Jan 4, 1967.
"This is the end, beautiful friend. This is the end, my only friend, the end".
The song is 11 minutes 41s of depression. Not wanting to set your Saturday morning off on the wrong foot, but it's good prep work and background music for the story below.
I read the lyrics and they are wild – the stuff about the mother and the father won't get past Victoria (my editor), so I will leave that for you and your choice of large language models to inquire.
The Warehouse - What an absolute shit show. The only thing this stock has consistently delivered on is trading at life lows.
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/markets/the-warehouse-is-cooked-everyone-knows-it
This is a terribly misinformed article. Pure trash.
I debunked it on the other site, but one only needs to look at this single line to realize the author is a complete total moron:
"Spoiler alert: if they cut the dividend today, the stock would more than halve, again"
Ummmmm....hows this for spoiler alert: the company currently has a no dividend policy already, and hasn't paid one in 20 months.
The putz of an author doesn't know the most basic fundamentals about the company.
Jeez LEK that article really pissed you off eh.
One section that is a worry is this bit " Don't get me started on the four chief financial officers (and an interim) they have had in the last seven years. Torpedo Zero and Warehouse Stationery were signs – leadership and culture are everything."
Isn't the new CEO one of those CFO's? And he's been around for nearly 2 years and apparently was heavily engaged in addressing the problems with JJ.
But nothing has really changed has it. Even at the ASM through addresses and Q&A it seemed he /they were still just looking / analysing things and hoping they find the magic answers.
It always concerns me when a finance person is made a CEO of a retail outfit. Retailing is an art if if retailing isn't in your DNA you won't succeed and I think that Finance don't have that DNA.
Further more the CEO isn't even a Kiwi so will struggle to understand what makes retailing work in NZ.
I get the impression that all this analysis blah blah they are doing misses the vital point and doesn't really address the key challenge of 'how do we succeed in the current retail environment in NZ'
Good luck to them.
Apparently a few market observers are concerned about what wasn't mentioned at the ASM after Mark had hinted prior to meeting he would talk more about the big things he was doing to right the ship.
Seems the works ...all talk and no real action
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 01, 2025, 02:47 PMApparently a few market observers are concerned about what wasn't mentioned at the ASM after Mark had hinted prior to meeting he would talk more about the big things he was doing to right the ship.
Seems the works ...all talk and no real action
Since full year results were announced back in early October - he has said more of the long term strategy will be revealed later in FY26 (which ends in August 2026).
Since then we had announcement of the "cost reset program" (layoffs) in the Q1 trading update, and at the AGM he specified: " We will share further details of our refresh strategy later in FY '26. I know the words are not what our shareholders, our customers and our team members want right now. You want action, execution and improved performance and that is exactly what we as a team are committed to delivering. The team and I are working tirelessly to improve performance, and we look forward to reporting on our progress in the coming months."
I'm not carrying water for the guy, but he's already doing layoffs just a couple of months after coming on as CEO - so I would consider that concrete steps and not just talk.
But will they ever be great again, dominating large box retail? So long they've been an also ran, even before the truely great internationals came to NZ and are smashing it. I can't see an investable case in WHS. Convince me otherwise.
Quote from: Buzz on Dec 01, 2025, 07:56 PMBut will they ever be great again, dominating large box retail? So long they've been an also ran, even before the truely great internationals came to NZ and are smashing it. I can't see an investable case in WHS. Convince me otherwise.
It's pretty simple really: don't need them at all to be anything fantastic, just improving gross margin by 1-2% and reducing CODB by 1-2% gets them back to being a ~$100m profit company.
Potential to get back to that $100m profit figure is fairly low hanging fruit. Now consider current market cap is only $270m.
Nothing is a lock, and I still haven't invested much in WHS, but the risk reward looks pretty juicy, and the market is currently already pricing the company like it's going to fail.
This touted $100m profit seems so easy to obtain
Last 11 years they've made $672m profit )$175m of that came in 2021 when no retailer could do wrong)
That's what they call ADJUSTED NPAT. Take of $209m of ADJUSTMENTS and real NPAT has been $463m in 11 years ... yes 11 years so average is $42m and ADJUSTED basis $61m
Only once have they achieved more than $100m
But wonder boy Mark is on the case so $100m coming up soon it seems ...good luck to him I reckon.
PS - no doubt a bucket load of ADJUSTING coming up ... just as well ADJUTMENTS don't count
I'm with Winner, If it was so easy it would have happened multiple times already not just a one-off post Covid freakish year. $42 million average over 11 years with turnover of more than $3 billion is less than a 1.5% margin and a disgraceful outcome for shareholders.
Funny Kmart NZ June year results went up today
Sales $1,017m (up 2% on pcp)
Gross Margin of 43% (down from 44% pcp)
NPAT $102m v $106m pcp
Jeez $100m profit easy peasy by looks of it and Kmart only have to sell a third of what WHS does
Mark mentioned Walmart profit margin of 3% as a'respectable' target
Probably didn't want to acknowledge his biggest competitor does 10% ... would ride expectations eh
QuoteProbably didn't want to acknowledge his biggest competitor does 10% ... would ride expectations eh
Good for them!
To me this shows discount retailing can easily achieve 3% profit margins, and obviously much higher when done well! Very encouraging.
Digressing from the thread topic sorry but trying to send an online enquiry form from the investor centre doesn't work because it expects you to confirm as human, just doesn't give you a means to. Symptom of investor relations being low priority??
edit : post 676, took WHS under 30 minutes from sending them a generic online query to resolve some issue they had.
Quote from: Otago K on Dec 02, 2025, 05:07 PMDigressing from the thread topic sorry but trying to send an online inquiry form from the investor centre doesn't work because it expects you to confirm as human, just doesn't give you a means to. Symptom of investor relations being low priority??
Worked OK for me just now
Asked them what product categories do they classify as 'grocery' and whether the definition has changed recently
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 02, 2025, 05:23 PMWorked OK for me just now
Asked them what product categories do they classify as 'grocery' and whether the definition has changed recently
Thanks
I just went to try another browser, and it was also working OK, then I noticed a quick email reply from them within 30 minutes of the issue being raised, they had resolved the issue. Big ups to the WHS I will say on this matter
edit OK actually seems the Issue is in my Firefox browser I suspect, still glitching but the response time was sharp and also looking to address the matter I had sort to enquire on.
John Journee (JJ) stepped up as Interim CEO in May 24 and with new CFO Mark set out to 'transform' WHS
Quickly restructured the leadership team to reflect the focus needed to achieve transformation. One casualty of the restructure was the guy now leading Kathmandu so he wasn't really a casualty eh.
No doubt JJ and Mark sought wise counsel from Directors Guild Tony of My Food Bag fanme and Dean from Ryman
A few months ago JJ handed over the CEO reins to Mark to front the transformation.
This transformation still trying to get traction ....seems a lot of analysing and posturing going on but no real progress.
Maybe 2026 is the year it'll happen but WHS culture suggests even that will be problematical
I see good result as being $30m NPAT (ADJUSTED of course) in F27 ...transformation takes time.
Quote from: winner (n) on Dec 03, 2025, 08:35 AMJohn Journee (JJ) stepped up as Interim CEO in May 24 and with new CFO Mark set out to 'transform' WHS
Quickly restructured the leadership team to reflect the focus needed to achieve transformation. One casualty of the restructure was the guy now leading Kathmandu so he wasn't really a casualty eh.
No doubt JJ and Mark sought wise counsel from Directors Guild Tony of My Food Bag fanme and Dean from Ryman
A few months ago JJ handed over the CEO reins to Mark to front the transformation.
This transformation still trying to get traction ....seems a lot of analysing and posturing going on but no real progress.
Maybe 2026 is the year it'll happen but WHS culture suggests even that will be problematical
I see good result as being $30m NPAT (ADJUSTED of course) in F27 ...transformation takes time.
Sums it up well Winner. What would you do if appointed WHS CEO? Or do you think it is stuffed?
Wonder how the The Warehouse Bargain Shed, a pop-up at 182 Balmoral Rd is going. Kicking IKEA into touch I hope.
Had to smile when I heard that Mark invited shoppers to "skip the Sylvia Park traffic and hunt for a homeware bargain" in Mount Eden instead.
A week ago Mark was lamenting that New Zealand retailers had trained the consumer to "hunt for discounts all the time"which stuffed their margins. He said the group did not want to be discounting, particularly given the state of its eroded margins.
Never mind the Bargain Shed will be busy and hopefully incremental sales even if at a low margin ...won't last long. Got to do things like this to survive
That would depend winner.....if they are using a pop up store to move SLOB then it is a win-win.
Quote from: Ferg on Dec 07, 2025, 11:01 AMThat would depend winner.....if they are using a pop up store to move SLOB then it is a win-win.
And plenty of SLOB there is
23% of $476m is a lot of aged stock (>6 months old) and then there's the $15m already written off
Sell the written off stock a win and even if sold the slow moving stuff at cost still a win as they won't need to write it off in the future lol
So much work for the new CEO to do after Nick Grayston did such a fine job of shredding more than $120m of shareholders capital on his failed iniatives all under the boards "watchful" eyes.
Quote from: Basil on Dec 07, 2025, 12:17 PMSo much work for the new CEO to do after Nick Grayston did such a fine job of shredding more than $120m of shareholders capital on his failed iniatives all under the boards "watchful" eyes.
That was his pay Basil
Market cap fell by more %4500m while he was around
And so far that guy Mark has seen market cap down $270m since he joined the company
No disrespect to accountants but accountants are not retailers and WHS will one day regret promoting this Mark ... but Dame Joan won't be around to worry
Hey Basil .... didn't Nick buy your shares at $4 something.
Well done ... you must have made a few bob on that trade
Probably you didn't spend the proceeds at a Red Shed by the looks of their dismal sales perofrmance over the years
Great sale that was mate. I see he's sold his Remuera mansion and fled the country in disgrace.
Bought a few basic tee shirts there the other day at $7 each. That'll help shareholders out.
Gosh, that loss of market cap is breathtaking !
Quote from: Basil on Dec 07, 2025, 01:45 PMGreat sale that was mate. I see he's sold his Remuera mansion and fled the country in disgrace.
Bought a few basic tee shirts there the other day at $7 each. That'll help shareholders out.
You should have another go ....could double or quadruple your money
....and then sell to Mark lol
A couple of damning articles in The Post lately. One about outsourcing a lot of tasks to India and how current stuff are being treated badly and other about the zillions of old stock they have
There was one comment that the new CEO isn't the right man to change WHS for the better ..like I say an accountant will never make a great retailer ..let alone a change agent.
WHS needs to change dramatically. The process is straightforward: Decide where you're going. Then ask: How do we actually have to think and act to get there?
But there's a harder question for any leader: How do you get people excited not just about the mission, but about becoming who they need to become to achieve it?
Goals don't execute themselves. Visions don't align people automatically. The problem is always people.
Which is another way of saying: the solution is always people, too.
Murphy's Law says the system will eventually fail. Culture is how you build people and teams who won't.
I think our Mark is doomed.
Wow, ended the year at an all time low of only 72.5 cps
Noticed a heck of a lot of winter apparel in the menswear section of our local WHS. No idea why they're trying to sell so many winter clothes in the middle of summer ?
Also wondering why Stephen Tindall's son has stepped down from the board and what that suggests about future prospects ?
Quote from: Basil on Dec 31, 2025, 04:45 PMWow, ended the year at an all time low of only 72.5 cps
Noticed a heck of a lot of winter apparel in the menswear section of our local WHS. No idea why they're trying to sell so many winter clothes in the middle of summer ?
Also wondering why Stephen Tindall's son has stepped down from the board and what that suggests about future prospects ?
That winter stuff is part of the $90m of old stock they have ...got to get rid of it sometime.
In the middle of winter I wanted some thermal tops .....none on the shelf of the local Red Shed
No worries Mark the accountant come CEO is going to fix it
The staff seemed a bit friendlier when i visited just before Christmas so I suppose that's a start but it could just be a time of year thing with people maybe generally a bit happier about life around Christmas time. Very long journey ahead to try and turn this ship around I reckon.
Quote from: Basil on Dec 31, 2025, 05:10 PMThe staff seemed a bit friendlier when i visited just before Christmas so I suppose that's a start but it could just be a time of year thing with people maybe generally a bit happier about life around Christmas time. Very long journey ahead to try and turn this ship around I reckon.
Jeez, the turn around plan is working
Mark quoted in BusinessDesk today
You will start to see more fun and energy on the floor, with managers given more licence to do what they feel works for their communities, as well as modernising and upgrading our spaces to surprise and delight our customers."
Nick and Joan have gone, arguably the two most useless executives that destroyed vast amounts of shareholder value, Nick at least $120m with his flawed business strategies and Joan giving Jacinda back $60m of Covid subsidies the company desperately needed because Cindy told her off.
With them gone the company at least has a chance and could put in a "dark horse" performance but competition keeps increasing and there's vast amounts of obsolete dated stock, bloated head office costs and my sense is some branches near to competition like K Mart are probably losing money.
Big ship, small rudders, how did that work out for the Titanic...and what does KW say about buying in a downtrend...
For those determined to have a punt, just follow the chart, there's no fundamentals so it's all TA you're relying on so it makes sense to only punt when the chart starts to look more encouraging.
basil ...they only need to improve GM% by a few %age points and save a few million in costs and hey presto profits back $80m/$100m
A 'dark horse' it is and TA should look better from here so a good punt I reckon
Agree, that's the bait on the hook, billions in turnover so theoretically if you tweak this and that and slash head office costs they should come right....BUT, how's that been working for them so far...
Maybe a determined bean counter with a few clues on marketing is exactly what the company needs as the new CEO though ? They really do need to go through their costs on a line by line basis with a fine tooth comb and skilled bean counters are usually good at that. What's his track record been like in the past mate ?
Quote from: winner (n) on Jan 01, 2026, 12:06 PMbasil ...they only need to improve GM% by a few %age points and save a few million in costs and hey presto profits back $80m/$100m
A 'dark horse' it is and TA should look better from here so a good punt I reckon
There's no indication from TA that it "should look better from here", in fact the TA looks awful and along with the terrible FA and sustained poor business performance, this isn't a punt now, it's an unashamed gamble. Un-investable on any basis imo. https://invst.ly/1eaga1
Apparently WHS IPO'd in Nov 1994 at $2.50 :o
Agree Buzz. You'd need to see a break up through the 30 day MA, currently 76 cents (as an absolute minimum), to consider the TA was showing a glimmer of hope. A break above 80 cps on proper volume, (if it ever happens), would give much better TA support. Its hard to escape the conclusion looking at the long term share price graph that this is a company that's in systemic decline.
Mark sent me a note via LinkedIn -
Merry Christmas Aotearoa! Spent the last two days in stores with our incredible teams. So grateful I get to work with passionate men and women who love our company and love New Zealand. We getting stronger together.
Quote from: winner (n) on Jan 03, 2026, 08:01 AMMark sent me a note via LinkedIn -
Merry Christmas Aotearoa! Spent the last two days in stores with our incredible teams. So grateful I get to work with passionate men and women who love our company and love New Zealand. We getting stronger together.
It is quite a testament to his commitment and work ethic ,this commitment and drive from a C E O usually pays off in the long run ,early days yet of of course but good on him.
The Warehouse Group confirms leaner operating structure�
04/02/2026, 08:30 NZDT, GENERAL
NZX | Media release – 4 February 2026
The Warehouse Group confirms leaner operating structure
The Warehouse Group today confirmed a new leaner operating structure for its head office, including co-sourcing with Tata Consultancy Services (TCS). These changes form one part of the cost reset programme signalled in November 2025, which includes wider non-labour cost reductions to ensure the Group's cost base is sustainable for a value retailer. The programme aims to support a Cost of Doing Business (CODB) below 31% of sales.
As part of the new operating model, the Group is expanding its partnership with TCS to support the delivery of several corporate and administrative functions, including parts of technology, accounting, call centres and payroll. TCS will provide the Group with access to modern platforms, capacity and capability, including AI, at a scale and cost that would not be possible to build internally. With TCS supporting these functions, the Group's head office teams will be able to make more progress on critical areas like its in-store experience, merchandise and supply chain.
Chief Executive Officer Mark Stirton said, "Our cost base is not sustainable for a value retailer. As one of New Zealand's largest retail employers we must make these tough choices for our 10,000 team members and their families across the country and return the Group to sustainable profitability."
The restructure will see around 270 head office roles leave the business, with a small number of areas continuing through consultation.
"We're supporting everyone affected with care during what we appreciate is a difficult time for them," said Mr Stirton.
"Together with the non-labour cost reduction initiatives underway across the Group, these changes will help strengthen profitability and allow us to deliver better value for our customers over the long term."
The restructure will result in redundancy costs of approximately $6 million in FY26. This will be recognised as an unusual item and will impact Reported EBIT for the year.
The new structure that supports the co-source model is expected to significantly lower the Group's labour cost base. Labour cost savings of approximately $3-4 million are expected in FY26, with annualised savings expected to increase to approximately $17 million by FY31. This will deliver total expected savings of approximately $70 million over the initial 5-year contract term. These savings are in addition to the estimated $40 million over five years announced by the Group in September 2025 on its licenses and managed services partnership with TCS.
The Warehouse Group will provide a broader update on the cost reset programme as part of its FY26 Half Year Results which will be released on 27 March 2026.
Ends
Will be interesting to see how many other companies follow WHS lead if this works out as planned.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks the annual savings being targeted are underwhelming.
Quote from: Basil on Feb 04, 2026, 05:21 PMI'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks the annual savings being targeted are underwhelming.
I've seen what I imagine is the masterplan on a spare blackboard next to the executive bog at Warehouse Way
1. Get rid of the hugely loss making disaster called the market and less horrendous but still troublesome Torpedo 7
2. Get rid of the Head Office minions
3. Sell the Tindall two holdings to Aldi
4 . Pascoes are happy / minority shareholders are happy / Tindall Foundation gets more cash to distribute
5. Er, that's it
8)
Your dogs of the dow stratagy is not without merit mate. If you buy enough beaten down dogs one or two of them might bark.
Quote from: Basil on Feb 04, 2026, 07:31 PMYour dogs of the dow stratagy is not without merit mate. If you buy enough beaten down dogs one or two of them might bark.
And ooooo look - you are #9 currently
And I'm #19 - wait till my WHS and ARB takeovers happen eh
And we won't mention that dodgy doggy chap at 20
And 4 weeks till we get to go boating 8) 8)
Quote from: Basil on Feb 04, 2026, 05:21 PMI'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks the annual savings being targeted are underwhelming.
$17m annual savings on CODB mean before tax income will be $17m higher.
$17m higher pre-tax income for a company with a current market cap of $250m is a huge amount.
Kiwi mascot going to save the Warehouse
Retired in 2005 -- since then Red Sheds have been in gradual decline
Sorry .....not allowed to post a cool picture of the kiwi
BusinessDesk today -
Jarden analysts lifted their rating on The Warehouse Group to overweight and increased their 12-month target price by 19% to $1.15, thanks to cost-cutting and an improving consumer backdrop.
"We believe WHS [The Warehouse Group] offers investors significant upside if it can execute on self-help targets," analysts Guy Hooper and Nick Yeo said.
"We are encouraged by initial progress on its operating cost base, with announcements to date supportive of management having the mandate to progress the changes required."
WHS is a BUY BUY BUY and it will OUTPERFORM OUTPERFORM OUTPERFORM
Quote from: winner (n) on Feb 11, 2026, 08:43 AMif it can execute on self-help targets
That's the $64,000 question. I need to see some TA support on the chart before having a "speculative punt" on this poorly performing mutt. If I do so it'll be a modest bet, only playing with the profits I made from selling to Nick a few years back at $4.10
Lucky NZs best analysts understand. Same article has some Fubar comments as well - seem to be a bit behind the 8 ball on spruiking this 🤭
Forsyth Barr analyst Paul Laxton Koraua said while sensible, the job losses and resulting cost savings of $3 million to $4m in the 2026 financial year were small compared to its overall labour spend. The company spent more than $526m on employee expenses in 2025. Its target price for the retailer is 82 cents, and it rated the stock to underperform.
Quote from: Crackity on Feb 11, 2026, 06:54 PMLucky NZs best analysts understand. Same article has some Fubar comments as well - seem to be a bit behind the 8 ball on spruiking this 🤭
Forsyth Barr analyst Paul Laxton Koraua said while sensible, the job losses and resulting cost savings of $3 million to $4m in the 2026 financial year were small compared to its overall labour spend. The company spent more than $526m on employee expenses in 2025. Its target price for the retailer is 82 cents, and it rated the stock to underperform.
The vast majority of the employee expense is in store staff, required to actually operate. It's the back office staff where the $17m in planned eventual annual savings is actually coming from. Obviously the 2026 savings total is going to be small - Layoffs are happening in 2nd half of year, and then redundancy payments as well to account for - but the ongoing savings into 2027 finaicnal year and beyond will be considerable.
Every thing WHS are doing is just to stay in business.
Redundancy payments are high.
Ongoing lease costs are not reducing,and neither are their insurances and power costs.
The biggest problem is their buyers are not setting the market on fire,in fact the Christchurch stores have poor displays and stock selection.
As with other retailers they often show an item on their web site, but it is out of stock instore.
When you compare WHS's store staff to Mitre 10's there is a country mile of difference.
Mitre 10's are there ,friendly,helpful,and know their stock.
WHS's point of difference has gone. Everyone no longer gets a bargain.
Quote from: lorraina on Feb 12, 2026, 11:22 AMEvery thing WHS are doing is just to stay in business.
Redundancy payments are high.
Ongoing lease costs are not reducing,and neither are their insurances and power costs.
The biggest problem is their buyers are not setting the market on fire,in fact the Christchurch stores have poor displays and stock selection.
As with other retailers they often show an item on their web site, but it is out of stock instore.
When you compare WHS's store staff to Mitre 10's there is a country mile of difference.
Mitre 10's are there ,friendly,helpful,and know their stock.
WHS's point of difference has gone. Everyone no longer gets a bargain.
Agree with this and I hardly go there myself these days. Gross margins continue to diverge, with Kmart NZ at 42.7% and Red Sheds at 35.7% in FY25, while they were broadly even in FY22. They need to sort this out or dramatically increase sales. You can only cut costs so far. I don't think it's going to survive with its current offering. They do have valuable sites that would be of interest to say a third grocery player OR transition themselves.
Leases of their large sites.
Positive if some one wants them.
Negative if no body wants them.
What worries me was their recent use of one of their long time "vacant buildings" to run a clearance pop up store when Ikea opened.Therefore that site was not one of their "valuable " sites.,as it had been vacant for years.
Good discussion on the other channel. Why would anyone who is really good at what they do choose to work for WHS...
Quote from: Basil on Feb 14, 2026, 11:08 AMGood discussion on the other channel. Why would anyone who is really good at what they do choose to work for WHS...
People who are really good at retail wouldn't want a chance to run the nations biggest retailer?
Quote from: LaserEyeKiwi on Feb 14, 2026, 11:50 PMPeople who are really good at retail wouldn't want a chance to run the nations biggest retailer?
Absolutely & anyone who is worth their salt would love a job where they can stamp their mark rather than follow the same easy road as the last C E O clipping the ticket .
That's the way I like it they usually put a lot more effort in, and have an incentive .
B Hi Fi selling heaps in NZ. A 17% GM so not that profit at end of day
Half Year to December sales grew from $202m to $268m up 36%. EBIT from $2.2m to $4.5m
Did Noel Leeming grow sales at this rate?
Didn't their top guy at Noel Leeming leave for JB Hi-fi a couple of years ago ? He's made a huge difference there. Smart people know the WHS are in systemic decline.
Quote from: Basil on Feb 16, 2026, 02:45 PMDidn't their top guy at Noel Leeming leave for JB Hi-fi a couple of years ago ? He's made a huge difference there. Smart people know the WHS are in systemic decline.
Yep in 2022 appointed Tim Edwards to pursue what they described as a "significant opportunity to grow and expand" its New Zealand business under a new local leader.
Tim seemed excited at the time after being at WHS for about 10 years - probably relishing the opportunity to actually do something exciting instead of being stuck in a rut with WHS
Since that Tim took over JB HiFi their sales have grown from $260m to $466m
Noel Leeming sales are slightly down in same period (about $1,050m
So in 3 and bit years JB Hi Fi sales up $200m odd while NL stayed still best
Huge loss of market share fron NL
JB HiFi did have new stores but comparable (same store) sales were up 20.2% ..that's pretty good.
Be interesting to see what NL sales in H1 to January end up.
Screenshot 2026-02-17 111204.png
Anybody still remembers the times when WHS was above $7 per share? I know, it shows as well our age, but still - while they used to start at that stage plenty of new things, the core business was basically the same as today.
Did anything of the new stuff survive? Australia, travelinsurance, SIM cards, amazing bikes, ....
Down 90% ... where everybody gets a bargain.
Quote from: BlackPeter on Feb 17, 2026, 11:20 AMScreenshot 2026-02-17 111204.png
Anybody still remembers the times when WHS was above $7 per share? I know, it shows as well our age, but still - while they used to start at that stage plenty of new things, the core business was basically the same as today.
Did anything of the new stuff survive? Australia, travelinsurance, SIM cards, amazing bikes, ....
Down 90% ... where everybody gets a bargain.
Unlike you 'rampinh' a stock like this
From the WES results...
Wesfarmers: Four years ago, as Australia was rocked by the early waves of COVID-19 inflation, Wesfarmers' Rob Scott declared that the conglomerate was going to go against the tide – while others took prices increases, Bunnings, Kmart and its other retail businesses would double down on extracting costs and improving productivity, and pump savings back into price where possible.
As inflation rears its ugly head again, Scott is sensing a similar moment. In the middle of last year, Wesfarmers saw inflationary pressures building and realised it needed to push even harder on productivity. And the headline numbers tell the story of success: revenue up 3.1 per cent across the group, profit up 9.3 per cent for the December half.
Now comes phase two: Bunnings, Kmart and Officeworks have dropped prices on thousands of products in the past few weeks.
"That's what's great about the Kmart and Bunnings business model. We've demonstrated that when we offer the lowest prices, we grow our sales. And through productivity initiatives, we can not only grow sales, but also grow profit," Scott says.
https://api.nzx.com/public/announcement/470005/attachment/465453/470005-465453.pdf
getting back on track, C E O Mark doing great work
Gosh, sales for the first 6 weeks of 2H down 0 2% wheras HLG up more than 20% for the same period. Chalk and Cheese.