The Internet has given investors many excellent sources for doing due diligence on the thousands of stocks available for purchase. But for many investors, finding trustworthy sources of information about a particular company can be challenging.
One source that many investors look to for reliable information on a company is the various stock discussion boards and forums. While some of these research sources can be helpful, many of these discussion boards and forums have dangerous elements to them.
Almost all stock forums contain slithery characters that have insidious hidden motives when posting their comments. Some of these forum posters are so clever at what they do, even the most sophisticated investor can make a bad buy or sell decision based on the poster's deceiving posts on the forums. Recall that even the CEO of Whole Foods was caught posting in an insidious fashion on a company's stock forum.
One slimy character in particular to be vigilant of is the omnipresent stock ramper. S/he can be found on almost every discussion board / forum and too many times investors can make bad buy decisions by following the ramper's misguided advice.
Remember, the anonymity of the Internet should make you skeptical of what anyone says if you don't know who they are. Before making a buy or sell decision on a stock, make sure you are dealing with a reliable source. And if that source is an anonymous stock forum poster, that source is rarely reliable.
Here are 15 ways you can identify the stock discussion board ramper. I've seen the same behaviors in the stock rampers across many stock forums. Once you know the warning signs, you can learn to spot the ramper much more easily:
1. The rampers post exorbitant stock price predictions.
2. The rampers warn others they better get in now or else. Their "buy now" posts almost sound like threats.
3. They attack those who disagree with their lofty predictions. They cannot back up their arguments with a rational discussion, so they resort to petty name calling and telling others who disagree with them that they are "full of it."
4. They are not open minded. You cannot have an intelligent discussion with these types. They will do whatever they can to discredit those who disagree with them by spreading false information. They are very often antagonistic.
5. They post their predictions over and over and over desperately hoping to move the market. They never do, because what they say is insignificant to the market. That is because no one knows who they are (see below).
6. The rampers rarely (if ever) backs up their predictions with concrete, specific numbers - if they do, projected sales numbers are way beyond what the company, analysts, and industry insiders say is realistic. But somehow, according to them, even people in the company are overly PESSIMISTIC when it comes to their own sales projections.
7. They post anonymously - they are no-names in the financial world or the particular industry that the company is involved in. Credible people who make lofty stock price predictions will often post their real names – or link to articles they have published - so others can get a feel for their pedigree and can research their background. The vast majority of credible stock market heavyweights do not post in discussion forums. If they do, they usually tell people who they are and can prove it.
8. Oftentimes the rampers are hired by boiler room operations. Their pay grade is whatever you could imagine a company would pay someone to post on Internet forums – not much above minimum wage.
9. Rampers often talk of a fictitious track record in predictions - legends in their own mind. They rattle off all their past "accurate" predictions including that the sun was going to rise in the east today.
10. It is obvious that the rampers have an agenda on the discussion board. They are not objective about the financial environment, the company, management, etc. Their posts carry the same one-sided theme. Bad news is good news in reverse. Any good news (even modest good news) is an affirmation of how the stock is going to appreciate to incredible levels shortly.
11. They appear to be rabid on their support of the company – beyond a reasonable amount of enthusiasm, the ramper comes across as almost crazed in his/her excitement.
12. Rampers are egotistical, and it comes across in their posts. Anyone who does not agree with them is an "idiot," even those who are esteemed in their respective field. They are not respectful of those who disagree with their predictions.
13. When the stock is on a run, the ramping intensifies – the stock is "going to the moon." This, incidentally, is often a great time to sell the stock. Remember, no one every went broke taking profits.
14. When the stock is in a lull, the ramping may intensify in a desperate attempt to do a quick pump and dump scheme.
15. The ramper will unceremoniously dump the stock when their mission has been accomplished. Those remaining in the stock are now deemed to be "bagholders" by the pumper.
The rampers continue their agenda over and over. It happens on every stock discussion board – especially on penny stock boards, when pump and dump operators and boiler room operators feel they can have an impact on a thinly traded stock.
Fortunately, with practice, we can learn to spot the ramper once we know the red flags. With experience, you get an intuitive feel about various posters on the Internet – even with the anonymous nature of these stock forums.
Learn to spot the slithery ramper, and you'll be a better investor.
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That very long post almost deserves its own thread..
Like general discussion of some kind...
Re: HLG... The next news round will be interesting for both those trading the stock and those holding...
Would suggest that some may have taken profits and perhaps taken a bit more TRA.
Caveat emptor come to mind.
Good post Lorraina. But to balance your comments, there are also posters who give freely of their time and expertise (yourself included in that group over the years) to present what they see as an investment opportunity backed up by sound reasoning and specific calculated numbers for others to consider. They may present an enthusiastic view but that's quite different to ramping.
Also consider that a company position can change quickly with just one announcement eg WHS reporting a worsening cashflow position that potentially put shareholder capital at risk. Who in their right mind would not re-assess their investment case.
I'm a biologist with analysing skills. I am not an accountant, and I rely heavily on the expert opinions of others for me to make my own investment decisions. While investing should be done with eyes wide open, ever watchful for the dubious, it should also be enjoyable - I quite like making money - and as forum posters we should remember it takes no effort at all to remain respectful and civilised toward other posters.
Yes Whome parfait...
Obviously the next news event for this stock is more than interesting .. it will be pivotal for the SP. goes without saying really with MHJ showing real signs of growth stagnation for a while as inflation hit the wallets for everyone..
Retail is showng itself to be very cyclical..
Still both HLG and MJH have NO DEBT and therefore they have plenty of coin in the bank to keep paying a HUGE DIV...
We all have different posting styles. Often those that are very reserved are already tremendously wealthy, or have "old money", often with a private school education at the best school, never been broke or needy in their lives, some of them married to wealthy high earning partners making $1m+ and investment is merely an academic exercise for them to see how much further they can build they family dynasty. I know these types, I have some of them as clients. Some of them are very nice, kind and respectful people, a real pleasure to deal with and others...the exact opposite. You'll find them at places like Smith and Caughey...they wouldn't dare been seen wearing anything from a Hallensteins or Glassons store! All too easy for these types to find themselves sneering at others struggling away to try and provide a comfortable living for their families.
Changing gears,...Very easy for people to say, oh apparel spending is down without thinking about whether its affordable apparel that's being impacted or more expensive brands like at Smith and Caughey for instance. Turners were quick to identify the trend towards lower value cars being more in demand. I would think there's a very good chance this trend also applies in the more affordable apparel brands too. Certainly, the WHS Red sheds sales have held up very well indeed in this cost of living crisis and a heck of a lot of affordable apparel is sold there.
Gosh, you could almost make a case that if people need to look smart for work as well as peacocking around to keep up appearances on social media, affordable apparel (which of course does wear out over time and needs to be replaced), is a consumer staple. Nah, can't be, Doggy must go and wash his snout out with soap coming up with a ridiculous conclusion like that. Red sheds sales holding up really well is just a fluke...or is it ?
Warehouse sales usually underperform v market during hard times
Quote from: Whome on Jun 04, 2023, 12:54 PMGood post Lorraina. But to balance your comments, there are also posters who give freely of their time and expertise (yourself included in that group over the years) to present what they see as an investment opportunity backed up by sound reasoning and specific calculated numbers for others to consider. They may present an enthusiastic view but that's quite different to ramping.
Also consider that a company position can change quickly with just one announcement eg WHS reporting a worsening cashflow position that potentially put shareholder capital at risk. Who in their right mind would not re-assess their investment case.
I'm a biologist with analysing skills. I am not an accountant, and I rely heavily on the expert opinions of others for me to make my own investment decisions. While investing should be done with eyes wide open, ever watchful for the dubious, it should also be enjoyable - I quite like making money - and as forum posters we should remember it takes no effort at all to remain respectful and civilised toward other posters.
Very well put. I too am concerned that if such a list was used to police the forum, probably all of us would fall off it at some point! I myself declared that HLG might get close to $8 post-index inclusion. Ramping? Of course not. Misplaced enthusiasm definitely.
Seriously though, buyer beware is paramount. As is an awareness that some posters like to cause ructions - or perhaps trolling is a better description of their modus operandi. They operate predominantly on the other site thank god, and for me, in the instance that initiated this discussion, use allegations of ramping as a weapon or a fig-leaf for their own personal animosity to other posters. Wolves in sheep's clothing, pretending to be altruistic when the opposite is true. They know who there are, as most of us do by now.
No one retail investor has the power to shift the market, no matter how big a legend in their own lunchtime they think they are. The people who move the market are professional money managers, because they have real dollars behind them, and volume dictates price moves. Of course, the smaller down the market cap you go the less money it takes to move the price, so if you are going to be a stock ramper you are better off sticking to the penny stocks not the top 50 of the market ;D And if you buy a penny stock based on the recommendation of an anonymous online poster, well, you deserve to lose your money LOL.
And I would remind everyone that to even attempt it is illegal. You may even go to prison.
https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/hotcopper-pump-and-dumper-gets-prison-but-released-under-bond-20230503-p5d5cp
(for those who frequent HC you no doubt will remember the red heart Fibonarchery)
Great post LoungeLizard, well said.
Trolling is a big problem on public forums including on here.
https://www.howtogeek.com/465416/what-is-an-internet-troll-and-how-to-handle-trolls/
Extract
Signs Someone Is Trolling
It can sometimes become difficult to tell the difference between a troll and someone who just genuinely wants to argue about a topic. However, here are a few tell-tale signs that someone is actively trolling.
Off-topic remarks: Completely going off-topic from the subject at hand. This is done to annoy and disrupt other posters.
Refusal to acknowledge evidence: Even when presented with hard, cold facts, they ignore this and pretend like they never saw it.
Dismissive, condescending tone: An early indicator of a troll was that they would ask an angry responder, "Why you mad, bro?" This is a method done to provoke someone even more, as a way of dismissing their argument altogether.
Use of unrelated images or memes: They reply to others with memes, images, and gifs. This is especially true if done in response to a very long text post.
Seeming obliviousness: They seem oblivious that most people are in disagreement with them. Also, trolls rarely get mad or provoked.
The list above is by no means definitive. There are a lot of other ways to identify that someone is trolling. Generally, if someone seems disingenuous, uninterested in a real discussion, and provocative on purpose, they're likely an internet troll.
We need to be vigilant and guard against these sort of people who try and hide their ugly, sick nature behind one form of facade or another. Make use of the report button.
Yes LZ the SP really did not reach the levels one might have expected and that leaves this thing a trade if your not holding a LOT...
one way to get rid of a lot is to ring a broker and set the tone for an Off Market trade when the time is right.
DB used to do this also back in the day.
It alomst lets you know that the INSTOS's hate retail and the real chase is TECH in the states with AI.
And AI is going or should be really BIG...
For example why buy support for products when if you make them right AI can be your sales and support.
It has the potential to CUT out a lot of CAP raises for those high tech support staff...
The ony thing with AI is make your product consistent so AI doesnt get confused....
People are already having these discussions on how there products fot the future and how an organisation needs to adapt to benefit from it...
Its like the dawn of the PC .... or even the invention of the stream engine... what used to go by horse and carriage is now yonder valley while you water the horses.
Thanks for the article Lorraina, but much more for the laughs I've had from some posts that followed ;) . Phraseology comes to mind. And maybe oneupmanship.
Just a bit sad to see the sideswipe at 'the other forum' already appearing in this thread, as it has in others. It is said one can fiddle numbers to get what they want, so too can one fiddle with words.
You're absolutely right.
Quote from: KW on Jun 04, 2023, 03:07 PMNo one retail investor has the power to shift the market, no matter how big a legend in their own lunchtime they think they are. The people who move the market are professional money managers, because they have real dollars behind them, and volume dictates price moves. Of course, the smaller down the market cap you go the less money it takes to move the price, so if you are going to be a stock ramper you are better off sticking to the penny stocks not the top 50 of the market ;D And if you buy a penny stock based on the recommendation of an anonymous online poster, well, you deserve to lose your money LOL.
And I would remind everyone that to even attempt it is illegal. You may even go to prison.
https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/hotcopper-pump-and-dumper-gets-prison-but-released-under-bond-20230503-p5d5cp
(for those who frequent HC you no doubt will remember the red heart Fibonarchery)