Just been forced to change from the old Direct Broking site to the new Jarden site.
All NEW and Flash looking but a number of changes are retrograde IMO.
The new TA charts look v sexy, but every time I change the company details I have to re-enter all my favourite parameters such as Bollinger Bands, MA details etc etc. again and again and again and again.......Painful.
The old Watch list used to have a great function that as well as the changes that trading day, you could also examine the changes in SP (% gains/losses) since you first entered the company in your Watch list. This feature was a v revealing way to check performance over longer periods.... now gone!?
Not looking forward to being dragged by the lead onto the new platform. Might try barking fiercely and see if I can delay the inevitable for as long as possible.
Bet the TRA chart looks sexy on the new platform. You should bring it up and see what you've missed :P
Quote from: Basil on May 23, 2023, 03:13 PMNot looking forward to being dragged by the lead onto the new platform. Might try barking fiercely and see if I can delay the inevitable for as long as possible.
Bet the TRA chart looks sexy on the new platform. You should bring it up and see what you've missed :P
Nice one Basil..... you mean like this chart (from the old platform while it still lives...TRA in RED)..... lol. 8) GTK v TRA over 2 yrs.jpg
ps I've done some barking to try and get some changes...... doubt if it will help.
LOL The 5 year comparison looks very different and that's before you consider Turners dividends.
I suppose if you want to try and "spin" GTK's performance as good, you've done a good job :P
They've been working on that new platform for years so if it's still not up to the mark I wouldn't hold your breath.
ok delet that ....
YUP there new sight not so great ....
spent 5 years asking for changes to transaction files back to the good old days..
No chance.. they even had Stock ord Numbers on the old files back in the 2010's era.
Just don't get me started on the new site, I could write a book and won't be using it until forced, have a quick look at it every now and then to see if they have implemented any of the essential changes I have suggested over the last couple of years (All things which are already present on the old site) and then its back to the excellent old site. If it ain't broke then don't fix it, they should have just rebranded the old site with Jarden and left it at that.
Breezy is SOOOOooo right on this one..
Quote from: Basil on May 23, 2023, 03:45 PMLOL The 5 year comparison looks very different and that's before you consider Turners dividends.
The 5 year chart is your spin Basil. My first purchase of GTK took place Jan 2021 (post #3 GTK thread) so a 2 year comparison and 166% gain over this time is entirely appropriate from my perspective......as to the next 5 yrs....who knows!
Back to Jarden
After more checking out the 'new' Jarden site, my recommendation for DB clients is not to shift to the new Jarden software.
I was 'forced' to change but today will try and get access to my 'old' (and better) DB site restored.
Quote from: Left Field on May 24, 2023, 08:47 AMThe 5 year chart is your spin Basil. My first purchase of GTK took place Jan 2021 (post #3 GTK thread) so a 2 year comparison and 166% gain over this time is entirely appropriate from my perspective......as to the next 5 yrs....who knows!
Back to Jarden
After more checking out the 'new' Jarden site, my recommendation for DB clients is not to shift to the new Jarden software.
I was 'forced' to change but today will try and get access to my 'old' (and better) DB site restored.
Good move and advice, the speed of the new site is snail like compared to the old one to boot which is very frustrating.
Had an unproductive discussion with DB today. Seems the DB site as we know it is redundant and will be phased out over the next few months.
All DB clients expected to transition to the new Jarden site.
Quote from: Left Field on May 24, 2023, 10:33 AMHad an unproductive discussion with DB today. Seems the DB site as we know it is redundant and will be phased out over the next few months.
All DB clients expected to transition to the new Jarden site.
They are going to lose a lot of trading income which i thought was the whole purpose of Jarden Direct as opposed to Jarden Wealth which is predominantly the investment branch of the company, the new site is currently only suitable for someone who does a trade every now and again but for a frequent trader its rubbish and thats where they make their money, just bonkers thinking here by Jarden.
I'm use Direct Broking and their website. I tried the Jarden one a while back and it was ghastly. Too long ago now I can't remember exactly why but I just have stayed on the DB one. I hope the Jarden one is better if I am going to be forced off the DB one - but it doesn't sound like it is.
Oh dear....and its not like ASB securities offers a competitive product either with noticeably higher brokerage rates 0.3% on equities, (50% higher), bonds 0.7%, (40% higher) and they kick you in the guts every month with a truly miserable 1% interest rate on funds held on call.
https://www.asb.co.nz/asb-securities/rates-and-fees.html#brokerage-rates
Quote from: Basil on May 24, 2023, 11:01 AMOh dear....and its not like ASB securities offers a competitive product either with noticeably higher brokerage rates 0.3% on equities, (50% higher), bonds 0.7%, (40% higher) and they kick you in the guts every month with a truly miserable 1% interest rate on funds held on call.
https://www.asb.co.nz/asb-securities/rates-and-fees.html#brokerage-rates
Yep thats the problem for NZX listed stocks, just no competition unlike the Aussie scene where broking companies are falling over themselves to offer you a better deal and the more trading you do the sharper the pencil becomes.
If you still get depth and orders are processed one supposes that its about as good as it going to get...
dont forget the cash account no longer has anything that identifies the amount accurtely for a reconilation.
after 5 year of trying gave up as the management stripped all meanfu;l information out of the reports accept the retail account for buy and sell..
If you running these accounts out of private company balance sheets you need special software to run the balances automatically.
I'm an ASB Premium Securities client - the rates are materially better than the base advertised rates. After having that for a few years I was able to negotiate brokerage and FX rates directly with ASB which improved the offering. They have a dedicated support team for premium securities clients and I can get a trader on the phone ASAP if I need help nudging an order that gets caught in the value discovery process (relevant for small caps) or a better view of depth. Great service. ASB/CBA lag pretty much everyone for cash mgmt and on call account rates but I just don't keep any cash in mgmt accounts and use two on call accounts (savings on call and savings on call bonus) to maximise interest on anything not in a term or pie.
Use Jarden to help place larger, infrequent off market trades.
Here is the help to move you...
Quote from: Waltzing on May 24, 2023, 11:44 AMHere is the help to move you...
Offer a new and improved design, are their web developers drunk or stoned or both? Just asking for a friend.
Just tone deaf one assumes...
great an association,,, hold a general meeting.. pass a resolution .... protest with placards and throw cream cakes... only MR B will want to eat the cream cakes while cruising and say we are all wasting our time....
remember laywers and accountants make money by hiring more poeple to solve the paper war and the "opera person sings..."
Please feel free to add your own singer...
Just give up on the NZX and move to the ASX, then you can use Interactive Brokers and discover what a real trading platform looks like ;D
Quote from: KW on May 24, 2023, 02:48 PMJust give up on the NZX and move to the ASX, then you can use Interactive Brokers and discover what a real trading platform looks like ;D
Makes sense. More companies over there to choose from. Especially given Nz's current poor performance pretty much across the board.
If that is the case maybe NZ should adopt the Kanga Dollar as the currency as well...
does NZ need the Kiwi Dollar anymore...
Like europe has the Euro...
To be fair.... after the initial shock, I've now spent a day and a half playing on the new site and I find there are some good points.
I like some of the news links and the new depth and daily trading info is much improved. More useful FA analysis than the old site too. No issues with speed (yet.)
My main issues are still the ones noted on #1 in this thread plus small teething issues like the TA analysis offers me 30 Month and 90 Month moving averages...... lol..... I suspect it is 30 Days not months etc.... but who knows!
That said I reckon it is worth persisting. Be interested in others thoughts as the roll out continues.
Jarden's seem to welcome pro-active feedback....... well, so far!
Sounds like a year of farther refinements has made some progress then LF?
we are all ears for your findings LF.
Quote from: Waltzing on May 24, 2023, 03:35 PMIf that is the case maybe NZ should adopt the Kanga Dollar as the currency as well...
does NZ need the Kiwi Dollar anymore...
Like europe has the Euro...
I should mention that IB also pays 4.3% interest on cash in your broking account.
Quote from: Left Field on May 24, 2023, 05:00 PMTo be fair.... after the initial shock, I've now spent a day and a half playing on the new site and I find there are some good points.
I like some of the news links and the new depth and daily trading info is much improved. More useful FA analysis than the old site too. No issues with speed (yet.)
My main issues are still the ones noted on #1 in this thread plus small teething issues like the TA analysis offers me 30 Month and 90 Month moving averages...... lol..... I suspect it is 30 Days not months etc.... but who knows!
That said I reckon it is worth persisting. Be interested in others thoughts as the roll out continues.
Jarden's seem to welcome pro-active feedback....... well, so far!
Yeah/Nah just had a look and still crap, like i said if you hardly ever trade then it doesn't matter that you have to untangle all the spaghetti mess to do what you want to do, the old site is just so simple/clear and clean (Its actually a masterpiece by comparison)
I'm definitely thinking of moving platforms as the Jarden one is terrible.
Why is it an upgrade almost always is actually a downgrade. The teenagers call that gaslighting these days
The KISS principal went out the door and bling came in...
If you design the software the right way the user can assemble their own GUI VIEWS...
does this mean a poll should be set up on both sites and see if its has enough results to point it at the blind and deaf management at Jardens..
i really dont think they know they have customers.
I spoke to one of the management level once and the drip of arrogance could be herd over the phone...
Ice Stone cold dripping water ...
Quote from: KW on May 24, 2023, 02:48 PMJust give up on the NZX and move to the ASX, then you can use Interactive Brokers and discover what a real trading platform looks like ;D
Yeah right.....we all should leave NZ. Lock the doors. Turn off the lights. Future is Bright in Aussie.
No thanks.
I was catapaulted into the new JardenDirect website the other day.
It's not very good, is it.
The login window presents me with a dropdown list of all the userIDs saved to my PC , from which I can select the appropriate user, or start typing the userID to shrink the dropdown list. Note that the JardenDirect userID is not the first item in the dropdown list.
Having selected the appropriate userID, I am then directed to a new window to enter my password.
There is no ability to select my landing page (Orders, Portfolio, Trades, Watchlists etc) for the current session, so I am directed to my default landing page, which is not necessarily appropriate for the current session.
My default landing page is "Watchlists", but I am confronted by a window asking me to complete four steps. Step two is to sign up for Shareclarity.
I don't want to sign up for Shareclarity., so I can never complete the four steps. And if I do click on what appears to be a link to join Shareclarity, nothing happens.So I scroll down and am presented with a button inviting me to join Shareclarity. I ignore this, and scroll on to the part of the page which shows my watchlists.
I do not have the ability to define a default watchlist, so the watchlist which I use least is displayed. So instead of my "default" watchlist being the second window, it's actually the fourth.
This is not progress.
Functionally, I appreciate that I have a lot of experience with the DirectBroking website, and the JardenDirect website contains all the functionality that I use (so far).
In a previous life, I used to do software for a living. I reckon that there's a good weeks worth of work here to simply document the presentation and usability issues. They're not going to pay me, so I'm not going to do it.
Who are my alternatives for NZX, NZDX, and Unlisted DIY trading - apart from ASB?
Trying to be open minded I thought I would have another look to see what had changed. So I logged on using my email and password and get this. I've no idea where to find this secret number - it hasn't turned up in my email box.
Jarden.png
Same, so I opted for the "try another method' option.....
(However, I'm not sure I should be helping you access the 'new' site.... it might be better to delay the inevitable.)
If all that fails this option below is always good.ID issues.jpg
Quote from: Left Field on May 25, 2023, 09:51 AMSame, so I opted for the "try another method' option.....
(However, I'm not sure I should be helping you access the 'new' site.... it might be better to delay the inevitable.)
If all that fails this option below is always good.ID issues.jpg
I tried that. Its a bit of a faff as I have Autenticator. But I have to log into my phone and then log into Authenticator. And jarden isn't there. I can't really be bothered.
Quote from: Henry Filth on May 25, 2023, 08:33 AM...
Who are my alternatives for NZX, NZDX, and Unlisted DIY trading - apart from ASB?
Good question - I would like to know that as well.
I know ASB, and while it is different, the user interface is terrible - and it is more expensive.
There seems to be some sort of competition to provide the lousiest user experience going on.
I recon sharesies might be an option for some (depending on how long they (sharesies) survive.
Are there any other discount broking options others can recommend?
Quote from: Minimoke on May 25, 2023, 09:11 AMTrying to be open minded I thought I would have another look to see what had changed. So I logged on using my email and password and get this. I've no idea where to find this secret number - it hasn't turned up in my email box.
Jarden.png
Ah - you first need to download and install an authenticator App ...
Quote from: Left Field on May 25, 2023, 07:53 AMYeah right.....we all should leave NZ. Lock the doors. Turn off the lights. Future is Bright in Aussie.
No thanks.
You don't need to physically leave NZ to trade the ASX. Share trading is not restricted to the country you reside in. You can trade any stock market in the world from NZ.
Interactive Brokers allows you to trade on 75 global stock markets from NZ. However, the NZX is not one of them. Perhaps you should ponder why that is?
Quote from: KW on May 25, 2023, 10:14 AMYou don't need to physically leave NZ to trade the ASX. Share trading is not restricted to the country you reside in. You can trade any stock market in the world from NZ.
Well, yes - though increased money laundering and tax legislation in various countries makes it more and more inconvenient to open and operate accounts overseas.
And even for trading on the ASX (which is still nearly a home play) you need to become a specialist on the NZ FIF rules ... as well as being happy to forfeit a lot of tax advantages Australians in Australia would get (franking credits).
So, yes in principle you can ... but it is related with a lot of additional pain and both more complex NZ taxation as well as frequently additional foreign tax obligations. Not everybody's cup of tea.
Quote from: BlackPeter on May 25, 2023, 10:20 AMWell, yes - though increased money laundering and tax legislation in various countries makes it more and more inconvenient to open and operate accounts overseas.
And even for trading on the ASX (which is still nearly a home play) you need to become a specialist on the NZ FIF rules ... as well as being happy to forfeit a lot of tax advantages Australians in Australia would get (franking credits).
So, yes in principle you can ... but it is related with a lot of additional pain and both more complex NZ taxation as well as frequently additional foreign tax obligations. Not everybody's cup of tea.
You dont open an overseas account, you open an Interactive Brokers account in NZ. They provide forex trading as well, so you just convert your funds to whatever currency you want to settle in once its in the IB cash account (or they do it for you if you buy international shares).
Yes, you will need to pay FIF on international shares, but not the vast majority of ASX ones (its fairly easy to check, the IRD has it online now). The rules changed a few years ago as well, instead of being just ASX shares in the All Ords, its now all complying ASX listed shares (basically excludes overseas registered companies and stapled trusts).
Tax time is pretty simple. I just give everything to an accountant ;D
But what do you have to invest in in NZ? A few retirement villages, power companies, and a couple of retailers. All the good companies delist from the NZX, either because they are bought out or because they decamp to the ASX. You just get left with the dregs.
Everyone wonders why NZers are obsesssed with property investment. Part of the reason is that they are not encouraged to invest in world markets. Which means they have lost out on massive wealth gains. Here's a comparison chart of the NZX50 and the Nasdaq100. screenshot-www.tradingview.com-2023.05.25-10_46_42.png
I think the new site is great. What are the specific issues with it? Hopefully they come out with a mobile app shortly too.
Quote from: entrep on May 25, 2023, 11:09 AMI think the new site is great. What are the specific issues with it? Hopefully they come out with a mobile app shortly too.
My
current specific issue is that if I open "Watchlists", and then select something else - Wallet, Portfolio, whatever, I am unable to view my Watchlists.
I am presented with the list of Watchlists, the last one I viewed is underlined as the current watchlist, but
the watchlist is not displayed.
This is followed by a message from my browser "This page is slowing down Firefox. To speed up your browser, stop this page"
This is sporadically followed by another message
"<iframe src="https://www.googletagmanager.com/ns.html?id=GTM-WNF2DZ2>m_auth=>m_preview=>m_cookies_win=x" height="0" width="0" style="display:none;visibility:hidden" id="tag-manager"></iframe>You need to enable JavaScript to run this app. "
Sigh. . .
The transaction files are so badly designed you could bring a court case and FMA action.
Its truely shocking how negligent this system platform is...
perhaps that is NZ transaction processing INC.
One solution would be for certificate access at a full data feed and REST API doing away with need for the web site for more advanced users.
There server wont be set up to handle data feeds live as there site will be hocked up to the NZX product feed.
We have software ready to accept this type of data via OAUTH and a full runtime dynamic universial factory level late binding scripting engine.
Quote from: entrep on May 25, 2023, 11:09 AMI think the new site is great. What are the specific issues with it? Hopefully they come out with a mobile app shortly too.
What are the specific issues with it? How long have you got? You must have very low expectations or have a high tolerance for the substandard.
Quote from: KW on May 25, 2023, 10:50 AM...
But what do you have to invest in in NZ? A few retirement villages, power companies, and a couple of retailers. All the good companies delist from the NZX, either because they are bought out or because they decamp to the ASX. You just get left with the dregs.
...
Well, I can sort of live with dregs like MFT and FPH and if you want more excitement - e.g. the building sector offering as well some trading (and earning) opportunities :); Just checking - HGH did quite well for me long term as well and then - you forgot the complete agricultural sector. Most of them are currently in the lower parts of the cycle (hint!). And obviously - why would anybody invest e.g. in Skellerup? Just good business, so I understand you don't talk about them. You forgot as well Tourism as well as the (admittedly somewhat limited) technology sector.
But yes - if high risk full on trading is what you are after, the NZX offers only limited options, I agree with that.
For investors I think it is as good as any other place (maybe excluding the Super growers and droppers in the US, but again - not everybody's cup of tea).
I prefer to get rich slowly ... gives me a better nights sleep :) ;
Quote from: KW on May 25, 2023, 10:50 AM<snip>
But what do you have to invest in in NZ? A few retirement villages, power companies, and a couple of retailers. All the good companies delist from the NZX, either because they are bought out or because they decamp to the ASX. You just get left with the dregs.
<snip>
I live in New Zealand, and New Zealand has a whole bunch of companies which pay me relatively good dividends
in New Zealand dollars. And I like New Zealand dollars. . .
Mind you, I also like other currencies, so only about 2/3 of the portfolio's in New Zealand dollars, and only about 2/3 of it's invested in New Zealand.
As Henry the V says
some great places , Nelson to Golden bay and wine country, great AGR and HORT in the country ...
Still a country with great potential and now for some reason immigration is back on and the country is open for business.
Seems the new labour (change color please) Old dressed up has changed a few things in the back ground without much fan fare.
But sorry thats for another thread...
Quote from: KW on May 25, 2023, 10:14 AMYou don't need to physically leave NZ to trade the ASX. Share trading is not restricted to the country you reside in. You can trade any stock market in the world from NZ.
Interactive Brokers allows you to trade on 75 global stock markets from NZ. However, the NZX is not one of them. Perhaps you should ponder why that is?
Totally get where you are coming from KW. I used to trade USA markets using ETrade as a platform. ETrade was great for TA and FA and of course they offered discounted brokerage, currency exchange etc.
However, the key point for me these days is that if we don't back NZX and NZ companies, NZ tech etc, then we risk NZ becoming more of a backwater third world country than some will say we already are.
Best to back NZ companies to grow IMO, and for the same reason I use NZ local owned banks and prefer to work within the NZ tax and legal system.
The following article is a good reminder of issues that can happen using non NZ financial entities (as many crypto traders have found.)
https://usexpatinvesting.com/educational-materials-for-ex-pats/what-to-know-about-u-s-estate-and-income-tax-for-foreign-investors/
What happens if you just ignore their request to change over or just tell them you're not going to do it ?
Quote from: Basil on May 25, 2023, 09:04 PMWhat happens if you just ignore their request to change over or just tell them you're not going to do it ?
Soon they will just shut down the old site and force existing customers onto the new site, but they won't do that until the large majority of their customers have the opportunity to experience the new site, and presumably they hope that they won't lose too many customers.
From a new IT system perspective, one of the risks they will have factored into their rollout considerations, is how many customers might quit for another platform. I'd guess that the total number they anticipate will be quite low and they'll allow a long enough time for the transition for existing customers to get used to the new software.
Like some poster said (paraphrased), the longer they play with the new site, the better it seems to be. People just don't like change, but few of them will vote with their feet when push comes to shove, because change for them also means moving to another provider.
No date given yet? means they must be playing a waiting game...
shut soon... they dont want to piss you all off...
becuase some of you are very good and are well educated and articulate...
and they know where you hang out im sure by now... here and over there..
Quote from: Buzz on May 25, 2023, 09:18 PMSoon they will just shut down the old site and force existing customers onto the new site, but they won't do that until the large majority of their customers have the opportunity to experience the new site, and presumably they hope that they won't lose too many customers.
From a new IT system perspective, one of the risks they will have factored into their rollout considerations, is how many customers might quit for another platform. I'd guess that the total number they anticipate will be quite low and they'll allow a long enough time for the transition for existing customers to get used to the new software.
Like some poster said (paraphrased), the longer they play with the new site, the better it seems to be. People just don't like change, but few of them will vote with their feet when push comes to shove, because change for them also means moving to another provider.
True. A bit or risk and change management. I think it would also be sensible for them to allow for some basic customisation as well.
Be surprised how they would progress that if there orginal design did not start out as user centrix...
software for web sites can be a bit messy...
be interesting to see how long this old stuff hangs around for .. bit like the end of the wooden bi plane and fast forward to ...
we are moving into the sunset people ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmzkizC6Rz4
I doubt online DIY trading's a big money-maker for Jarden, and I doubt that they will be too sorry to see the back of it.
What's the depreciation timeframe for software these days?
Quote from: Basil on May 25, 2023, 09:04 PMWhat happens if you just ignore their request to change over or just tell them you're not going to do it ?
They simply block your access to the old site which will eventually close. It's new site or no site.
Also at some stage they will stop updating/supporting the 'old' site. Eventually you will need to change to get up to date data.
Latest glitch I have found....
On the 10 yr TA chart option, the MA options change from (say) 30 Days or 90 days to 30 Months/90 Months !!!
Still no changes to the other issues I reported.
Otherwise I'm slowly getting used to it.
Quote from: Left Field on May 26, 2023, 08:24 AMThey simply block your access to the old site which will eventually close. It's new site or no site.
Also at some stage they will stop updating/supporting the 'old' site. Eventually you will need to change to get up to date data.
Latest glitch I have found....
On the 10 yr TA chart option, the MA options change from (say) 30 Days or 90 days to 30 Months/90 Months !!!
Still no changes to the other issues I reported.
Otherwise I'm slowly getting used to it.
Having to slowly get used to an inferior product in 2023 is pretty sad when its being compared to something that was designed 20 yrs ago and is a masterpiece for trading. Seems like this company is being run like a Govt dept where the head and the tail are disconnected and happy to waste mega bucks over 3 yrs designing a piece of crap when instead they just needed a simple rebrand and refresh of the old site.
On the invitation, at the bottom, is the option to stay on the old site due to it being an inconvenient time to change. Maximum use of this option would tell them what people think.
It seems from the latest issue of Jarden "Direct Insights" - that they have been listening to feedback and have already made some changes, based on that feedback. As below:
QuoteJarden Direct Account Updates
We're always looking to enhance your experience from within your Jarden Direct account. If you haven't logged in for a while, you'll also see that we now have advanced charting, a new an improved markets page with an overview of the NZX and ASX, a refreshed new issues page, and much more!
Intraday charting can be elected when exploring a stock's overview page. This feature improves how volume and pricing data is displayed. Volume is more prominent, and pricing can be shown at 5-minute intervals, up to 5 days, with three different chart types including line, area, and candlesticks.
When logging into Jarden Direct, we have enhanced security to protect your account. After entering your password, you'll be asked for a six-digit code from your nominated two-step authentication method. These methods include receiving your code through an authenticator app (such as Microsoft authenticator or google authenticator), text message, or phone call. Phone calls can be made to both mobile and landline phones.
We've also been listening to your feedback about features you enjoyed in our old trading platform, Direct Broking. One feature that has recently been added to Jarden Direct is the selection of a landing page. This means that when you log into your account, you are automatically taken to a page of your choice from within the Jarden Direct platform. To update your landing page, simply log into your Jarden Direct account, go to my preferences, and select your landing page from the drop-down list.
Thank you to all those who have provided us with feedback, we still have more updates to come, so watch this space!
If you do have any further comments or feedback in the meantime, we'd love to hear from you. Please don't hesitate to send any feedback to info@jardendirect.co.nz
Quote from: Untamed on May 26, 2023, 12:35 PMIt seems from the latest issue of Jarden "Direct Insights" - that they have been listening to feedback and have already made some changes, based on that feedback. As below:
Just spin, the most meaningful changes as far as trading is concerned have not been actioned to date, just give us a fast trading app excluding all the superfluous garbage and it will be all good or just rebrand the old site and turn it into an app for pure trading.
Had to smile....
Winnie was asking about FPH's high PE
My new fancy Jardens trading site tells me FPH PE is 58.99 and compares this to peer COH.AU's PE at 61.30.
The same comparison with HLG by Jarden gives a PE of 10.58 and compared this to MHJ at 9.86, BST.AU at 7.75 and UNI.AU at 8.05.
I just switched over (why delay the inevitable). Some initial observations based on a peek at the MFB (My Food Bakhmut) page
- the graph of actual/forecast "earnings" used EBITDA not NPAT. Call me old fashioned but EBITDA is not earnings.
- the Revenue numbers flashed up by the chart are skew whiff due to being rounded to the nearest $10m (Earnings are to the $1m as you would expect). So multiple blocks are different sizes for the same revenue number...
- the depth chart requires scrolling up and down the screen to review it due to poor spacing.
All fixable but really the sort of stuff your pre production user testing should have picked up...
Quote from: Popeye on May 26, 2023, 04:35 PMI just switched over (why delay the inevitable). Some initial observations based on a peek at the MFB (My Food Bakhmut) page
- the graph of actual/forecast "earnings" used EBITDA not NPAT. Call me old fashioned but EBITDA is not earnings.
- the Revenue numbers flashed up by the chart are skew whiff due to being rounded to the nearest $10m (Earnings are to the $1m as you would expect). So multiple blocks are different sizes for the same revenue number...
- the depth chart requires scrolling up and down the screen to review it due to poor spacing.
All fixable but really the sort of stuff your pre production user testing should have picked up...
The depth chart shouldn't have a chart on the top of it(Put it elsewhere)and problem with scrolling solved, oh and get rid of that stupid live price refreshed box flashing up all the time.
DB down for some spade work over the weekend..
We have a lot of Spade work also..
Technical term for OOP work which one hope AI will take over one day... hmmm not sure about that but some of it is boiler plate.
Well my Watchlist issue seems to have come right. Hoorah! Now there are only the presentation and usability issues left, and for me at least they don't impact on functionality.
And out of idle curiosity, it sure would be fascinating to be able to have a look the test plans for both integration testing and UAT - and to know which groups were involved in both the initial and detailed design processes.
Anyone on here shoulder-tapped to represent the user community?
Let us know when we can have a remote access data feed that also lets us send orders via a REST API.... using OAUTH
which would mean we dont even have to log into the site...
as they say in french ...parfait
Quote from: Waltzing on May 27, 2023, 12:49 PMLet us know when we can have a remote access data feed that also lets us send orders via a REST API.... using OAUTH
which would mean we dont even have to log into the site...
as they say in french ...parfait
Which would mean that you wouldn't be paying them brokerage, which makes it as likely as me starring in "
The Return of the Sixty Foot Centrefold"
"Brokage would still be charged"
I knew one of the traders there who later moved to another full suite house. They had a different system for the on the market .. the web site was what the customer could use but that fed into another work station system for the on market staff..
Which means they would still make you pay for access to there NZX data feeds and you would need a certificate to send data to there web system back end via REST API and OAUTH.
They could how ever or should allow discount on volume.
That was the setup back then a while back... could have got the info mixed up as it was back in 2014
Brokage would still be charged by them. Your order wont process any faster either but you would not have log on the web site.
Society has no idea how its transaction systems are truncted and that is why these negligent systems are in more places than people imagine,
Quote from: Waltzing on May 27, 2023, 08:37 PM"Brokage would still be charged"
I knew one of the traders there who later moved to another full suite house. They had a different system for the on the market .. the web site was what the customer could use but that fed into another work station system for the on market staff..
Which means they would still make you pay for access to there NZX data feeds and you would need a certificate to send data to there web system back end via REST API and OAUTH.
They could how ever or should allow discount on volume.
That was the setup back then a while back... could have got the info mixed up as it was back in 2014
Brokage would still be charged by them. Your order wont process any faster either but you would not have log on the web site.
Society has no idea how its transaction systems are truncted and that is why these negligent systems are in more places than people imagine,
There's already a mechanism to charge the customer - the app/website.
I doubt that there's be any appetite for incurring development costs by adding a usage/transaction meter to the back end.
So gather your rosebuds whilst you may
it'll soon
be June
The charge isnt on the web site its on the back end server.
The two systems arnt the same one.
It clear that the customers have no idea how it works nor that the transactions arnt linked for audit purposes.
Nor can you transfer the brokerage charge to a ledger balance.
The web site is simply for the public to enter the order and see their non linked referenced transctions.
it highights an example of a country that has no standards for transaction management.
None of the transactions on the accounts are linked.
Its a ... waiting to happen.
If you place an order over the phone it will go straight to the internal market system and a brokerage charge will be applied. It wont go through the web site system.
The web site system has nothing to do with brokage.
Quote from: Waltzing on May 28, 2023, 09:15 AMThe charge isnt on the web site its on the back end server.
The two systems arnt the same one.
<snip>
Its a ... waiting to happen.
<snip>
OK, if you say so. I still wouldn't mind knowing what contribution any consultation with the user community made to the design.
Gathered any rosebuds yet?
Henry the V is asking the court whats what and who was it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg
gosh who knows!!!!!
gave up asking for mods to the transaction files ages ago... back in the creation days of the site the transactions file the customer downloaded had everything you needed for a perfect audit (baring brokerage) was present in the files...
Then some where around 2015-16 it all went to ....
The saying "They dont make them like they used to" appears to be the one...
Quote from: Waltzing on May 28, 2023, 11:50 AMHenry the V is asking the court whats what and who was it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTcRRaXV-fg
gosh who knows!!!!!
gave up asking for mods to the transaction files ages ago... back in the creation days of the site the transactions file the customer downloaded had everything you needed for a perfect audit (baring brokerage) was present in the files...
Then some where around 2015-16 it all went to ....
The saying "They dont make them like they used to" appears to be the one...
No rosebuds then. Ah well. . .
been doing the numbers and it would take about 1000 users to develop a site where live data oould be streamed from the NZX to a LIVE NZX data site.
That would cost the user about 35 NZD a year with an extra charge for the live running APP - the APP could project itself in TVs, WEB site mode, Java front ends and as a native windows app...
Pretty cheap really and be fully customised by the individual user using script commands.
But you would need 1000 users to make a site run at that charge rate.
The NZX live connect is however not cheap and who want to run that at a loss... id say no one.
Well. Isn't this all just a pian in the A###.
I'm being told Direct Broking website no longer available after 30 Nov. So I try to log in to Jarden. Not only do I need my password (which I have no idea what this is cos I have so many I can't remember them all) I try to recover it using an authenticators thing and now of the options work. And I can't go back to my email because I'm stuck in the verification page.
Jus thave to say I'm not very good with change!
Quote from: Minimoke on Nov 21, 2023, 12:07 PMWell. Isn't this all just a pian in the A###.
I'm being told Direct Broking website no longer available after 30 Nov. So I try to log in to Jarden. Not only do I need my password (which I have no idea what this is cos I have so many I can't remember them all) I try to recover it using an authenticators thing and now of the options work. And I can't go back to my email because I'm stuck in the verification page.
Jus thave to say I'm not very good with change!
The DB website is a masterpiece compared to the new Jarden site, the old site is simple/clean and efficient, the new one is a cluttered/ confused dogs breakfast by comparison and its taken over 3 yrs to produce. They should have just rebranded the DB site and saved millions in the process.
yup the process was a pain....
how ever there is plus side to the new site...
on a small phone you can log on to your portfolios from one touch of an icon...
its takes some time to realise whichicon to hit... but once your in the know you can operate thing from just a few taps of your phone screen...
i too hated it till i noticed that the backend is generating your portfolio from one touch of just one icon....
and that makes it super fast to use...
its all in the tap... and the info is all there on that one tab.. and the tool bar at the bottom...
try it on your phone...
we are developing software where we expect AI to drive it by simple commands... we are super fussy about how an application work and have to say we arnt missing the old site at all.
Quote from: Waltzing on Nov 21, 2023, 01:44 PMyup the process was a pain....
how ever there is plus side to the new site...
on a small phone you can log on to your portfolios from one touch of an icon...
its takes some time to realise whichicon to hit... but once your in the know you can operate thing from just a few taps of your phone screen...
i too hated it till i noticed that the backend is generating your portfolio from one touch of just one icon....
and that makes it super fast to use...
its all in the tap... and the info is all there on that one tab.. and the tool bar at the bottom...
try it on your phone...
we are developing software where we expect AI to drive it by simple commands... we are super fussy about how an application work and have to say we arnt missing the old site at all.
I would be way, way more impressed if they just rolled my same log in details over from Direct to Jarden. There no pointy having flash icons to press if you can't even easily get in. (And I havent even tried on my phone yet - need to get the PC sorted first!
think you will be surprised...
yes the transfer will terrible becuasd the log in screen did not detail the process and the process documentation was actually by the look for a mobile log in...
log in on the PC's was a nightmare
once your over you dont need all those log ins....
the problem is the help desk was not technology aware but one of them was a covering his lack of IT knowledge making it a nightmare for you all...
notice that there transaction reporting while stream lined is now audit deficit without a gaint peice of software to sort it out... which we developed in house...
happy to never go back to the old site as good as it was...
it was even better when the reports had the full spec of information in them before someone in management desided to remove the info to make more money in the back office for themselves and probably pay themselves more money...
Quote from: Breezy on Nov 21, 2023, 12:32 PMThe DB website is a masterpiece compared to the new Jarden site, the old site is simple/clean and efficient, the new one is a cluttered/ confused dogs breakfast by comparison and its taken over 3 yrs to produce. They should have just rebranded the DB site and saved millions in the process.
Made the change from DB to Jarden recently, I agree the new site is very cluttered.
One feature the Match Price feature at the beginning and end of the trading time each day seem not to be there any more, am I missing something to see the Match Price???
Quote from: Stockgathering on Nov 21, 2023, 05:36 PMMade the change from DB to Jarden recently, I agree the new site is very cluttered.
One feature the Match Price feature at the beginning and end of the trading time each day seem not to be there any more, am I missing something to see the Match Price???
It was there a few months ago when I last had a look at the site, you can minimize that chart at the top of the depth which could help.
Quote from: Stockgathering on Nov 21, 2023, 05:36 PM..
One feature the Match Price feature at the beginning and end of the trading time each day seem not to be there any more, am I missing something to see the Match Price???
Still a feature.......
FWIW Over the last few months working with the new site I like it. Much more FA info than the old site.
My biggest negative is the TA charting which requires you to enter your preferred parameters each time you view different companies. Painful, repetitive and slow.
With the old site, you could set up your preferred parameters at the beginning of a session and then could apply them to as many companies in that session as you wish.
I got forcibly migrated to the new site a month or so ago. At first I hated it and was very grumpy. Then I noticed quite often, more often than not, orders appear to go straight to market instantly. All was quickly forgiven, and I am now as happy as a Beagle with a fresh meaty bone.
yUP the pastel charting isnt as good...
the mobile screen is compact and the toolbar at the bottom provides easy access.
running multiple portfolios is a dream compared to the old one
the log on transfer process was not documented carefully for non programmers.
the logon was different depending on the machine type and may even be different for certain browsers.
your log on may well depend on the phone browser your using
I finally have my transition and log in problems all sorted. So I have access. Yeah.
Gee. A lot more information. Its taking me awhile to find my way around it all, but current thoughts: I reckon i'll learn to like it!
Haven't taken the plunge yet... better get onto it now!
Perhaps the Jarden platform will be short lived.
Jarden wealth is merging with JBwere, with Jarden selling down some of its merged stake to australian private equity group PEP (what could go wrong), according to the rumour mill. Maybe a new platform then?
Quote from: Fiordland Moose on Nov 29, 2023, 03:31 PMPerhaps the Jarden platform will be short lived.
Jarden wealth is merging with JBwere, with Jarden selling down some of its merged stake to australian private equity group PEP (what could go wrong), according to the rumour mill. Maybe a new platform then?
Hatch are majority owners of Jarden Direct.
Quote from: Breezy on Nov 29, 2023, 03:36 PMHatch are majority owners of Jarden Direct.
ah yes I vaguely recall reading about that
looks like you are definitely stuck with the new platform then lol
Quote from: Minimoke on Nov 29, 2023, 01:51 PMI finally have my transition and log in problems all sorted. So I have access. Yeah.
Gee. A lot more information. Its taking me awhile to find my way around it all, but current thoughts: I reckon i'll learn to like it!
I guess they come with pros and cons. Yes, there is a lot of additional information (which I previously used to get from other sources), which is good.
On the negative: Information is very cluttered and much more difficult to get out of Jarden a meaningful one page summary of your portfolio and portfolio movements. I do that now outside of Jarden in a separat spreadsheet (i.e. more work).
But I guess - it is, what it is, and so far I have not found a better solution for my needs under the still available alternatives. So, it might be a deterioration, but they are (after killing off the previous leader - Direct Broking) the best option available for my needs. Its a frightening world out there.
we would provide some software for people to use but suspect the solution might be seen as more complicated stuff to try and wade through as importing transaction for processing that do not incorporate a transaction ID is actually very complicated.
A go go the solution or cure might be seen as worse than the BUG...
the custom software solution we created is pretty big in itself to cater for the mess that is their transaction reports...
and then it still doesnt do broking charges nor allows a reconcilation since they removed all the audit information in the cash accounts.
ANZ had enough info to run a full business solution but then someone in management removed all audit information right up to full automated double entry book keeping.
They probable removed the info to increase admin speed to cut back office processing times on T2...
we solved the problem by creating a version of the orginal ANZ reports by filtering and merging the cash and retail to create the original ANZ reports with a lot of extra info..
Took the plunge... it's way better than their first attempt and they have bought over most of the good stuff. Does anyone know where u can find out the trading range for 1 week/month/ year? Can only see day and year... hope they develop an app as it's a bit clunky on the phone..
Quote from: Ricky Bobby on Nov 30, 2023, 10:52 AMTook the plunge... it's way better than their first attempt and they have bought over most of the good stuff. Does anyone know where u can find out the trading range for 1 week/month/ year? Can only see day and year... hope they develop an app as it's a bit clunky on the phone..
Its way better than their first attempt because they have had 3 yrs to get to this stage, still pretty crappy and slow compared to the old site using the same internet system, hopeless for any amount of trading especially on a phone. They should have just rebranded the old site as a fast trading app for those inclined that way to use. I see you can still use the old site for a 20 min delayed quote on any stock.
Quote from: Ricky Bobby on Nov 30, 2023, 10:52 AM...... Does anyone know where u can find out the trading range for 1 week/month/ year?
I only use the app on my computer. The trading range info you seek is provided when you search any particular company in the search window or by clicking on the NZX code in the left hand column of your portfolio or watch list. Once you have found the company, open the 'chart' option, open it by clicking on the drop down 'show' button.
You'll see the options for various trading ranges in the header above the drop down chart.
This might be different to using the app on your phone, but trust this helps.
Over on Technology thread put a automation script that shows an example of a power script that imports , and processes OMC accounts and turns them into Trial balance and ledger reports..
we have for 15 years even when away from the country maintained and developed a platform for processing transaction for ANZ broking client results.. this is what AI had to say about the NZ client transaction processing scene...
https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/4b7b435b-054c-41e8-9c52-e1632c5c065d
We have updated the OMC processing to use the new Binding machine .
we arnt planning on following up on AI's suggestion for a complaint to be lay with the FMA as this state of information processing for the entire Securities market in new zealand is probably across the board..
https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/910bb7d4-bac3-4f74-810d-f15cb5aba361