Tesla has enjoyed profit margins at the company level that are roughly double that of its US and European competitors. But when comparing profits on EV cars only, Tesla is streets ahead of the competition. Which old school manufacturer will be the first to fold?
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/visualizing-teslas-unrivaled-profit-margins
Quote from: KW on Feb 06, 2023, 02:36 PMTesla has enjoyed profit margins at the company level that are roughly double that of its US and European competitors. But when comparing profits on EV cars only, Tesla is streets ahead of the competition. Which old school manufacturer will be the first to fold?
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/visualizing-teslas-unrivaled-profit-margins
I think the key issue here is this is past tense. BYD (#1 in China) and other Chinese manufactures are really putting the acid on Tesla pricing now. In addition, many of the established manufacturers are starting to build out their EV range and making excellent very high caliber EV's, (e.g. Google BMW i4M50 reviews) and most of Tesla models are looking extremely tired and dated. Tesla are going to come in for a massive tsunami of competition in the years ahead.
You'd expect them to have record margins while they enjoyed first mover advantage but in my view that advantage is disappearing quickly. How many times has Tesla cut prices in recent months? Sorry I have lost count. I reckon somewhere around half their abnormally high margins have already gone with price cuts recently announced.
You can see this unfolding in their forward order book in the link you posted. Forward orders have ostensibly almost completely evaporated in the last 6 months as customers chase fresher designed EV's from Tesla's competitions at more competitive prices. Tesla's models are so old the only card they have to play to stimulate demand is cutting prices again and again. Their days of high margins are ending and very quickly at that.
Tesla is taking the Amazon approach. Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default. Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out.
And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.
Quote from: KW on Feb 06, 2023, 08:02 PMTesla is taking the Amazon approach. Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default. Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out.
And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.
Also, what some people don't know is that the Tesla is a completely unique monocoque design, specifically built for electric along with substantial savings in the manufacturing process. That contrasts with traditional manufacturers who are basically converting the drivetrain of ICE vehicles to Electric, without changing the underlying architecture of the vehicle, hence sustaining manufacturing costs. The tesla's are very clever engineering, and those profit stats will be concerning for their competition, as nothing moves fast in this industry, a decade will fly by before the other's catch up to the economics. By then, hydrogen or some other fuel will also be prevalent.
Quote from: KW on Feb 06, 2023, 08:02 PMTesla is taking the Amazon approach. Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default. Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out.
And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.
Amazon approach? The thing about amazon was that they managed to clip the ticket while leaving the cost for supplying the product to their business partners (similar like Uber, AirBnB and many others). Tesla however is doing the building and marketing of their product and they carry the full cost. In the long run there is nothing competitive about being run by a moron without soft skills.
Quote from: KW on Feb 06, 2023, 08:02 PMTesla is taking the Amazon approach. Cut prices enough and you drive competition out of business, then you get all the market share by default. Anything that is still competitive, you buy them out.
And the problem for the old car companies, as they are forced to phase out their ICE models on which they make good profits, and replace them with EV models on which they make very little money (or lose money) the faster they are going to go broke.
Sorry but I am not "buying" that. I'm not interested enough to compare prices overseas but here in N.Z. we have never seen so many hoards of very late Model 3's coming on to the market second hand (Trade me has 79 of them) and Tesla N.Z. have a LOT of new and second hand stock.
Its not surprising when such a tired, dated and quirky model is coming up against freshly designed alternatives like the Kia EV6 and Hyundai INIOQ. BYD are killing them on price with their vehicle winning independent awards, having the latest blade battery and nearly $20,000 less than a model Y
https://www.bydauto.co.nz/atto-3
Tesla's S is a design that's more than a decade old, the 3 and Y are quirky unusual designs and there are widespread reports of poor quality control, and appallingly bad after sales support and back-up.
Musk is shooting himself in the foot with his obsession with all things Twitter. If he doesn't get back in the drivers seat with Tesla and come up with some fresh designs and push the technology boat out further, (how many years has he been telling porkies about being able to build a full self driving cars now?) the strong growth he's experienced will start to decline.
The bottom line is early adopters with money who wanted to buy a model S, 3, or Y have already done so and when they come to replace that vehicle, they will want something fresh and new.
Quote from: Basil on Feb 07, 2023, 09:09 AMSorry but I am not "buying" that.
Tesla is absolutely killing it in NZ - seems plenty of Kiwi's are indeed "buying that" lol
screenshot-www.canstar.co.nz-2023.02.07-13_23_41.png
Also its most likely that the reason why there is a sudden increase in second hand Model 3's on the market is probably because people are trading them in for the Model Y. Tesla has sold 4226 Model Y in just 4 months, and still cleans up the closest competitor (BYD 1685).
"Tesla Model Y (from $66,875*)
While the past few years have been nothing but Model 3, there's a new Tesla on the block. And it's wasted no time in usurping the Model 3. After all, it's a compact SUV, which Kiwis much, much prefer over sedans, and it's only fractionally more expensive than the Model 3. It also carries about all the same features and levels of performance as the already impressive Model 3.
So it's no surprise to discover that it has managed to become the number one EV in New Zealand in just three short months."
https://www.canstar.co.nz/nz-car-insurance/top-selling-electric-cars-in-nz/
In white, drive away off the Tesla website 2 minutes ago, cheapest model Y is $77.987 https://www.tesla.com/en_nz/modely/design#overview
Why anyone would pay that when you can get a Kia EV6 for the same money is beyond my comprehension.
https://kia.co.nz/vehicles/kia-ev6/
goddammit - now I'm getting spammed with EV advertising ::)
LOL - Plenty of life left in ICE powered vehicles. If they write off Mrs hounds vehicle, I'll probably be recommending this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lUpnBvsYPI
Thanks to FB and Google, I think I have now seen every EV car being sold in NZ (except Tesla, because they don't pay for advertising) lol
And my conclusion is that they are all pretty ugly and boring. It seems 70's styling is back in ??? I'm not really sold on the Ioniq 5 or EV6 styling. So far the only one I really like is the Ford Mustang (which ironically is the one that loses money for Ford)
On the plus side, I did get invited to apply for a Hyundai market research session with free drinks, nibbles and $100 - here's hoping I get selected ;D
Tesla in the 6 months Jul-Dec 2022 massively dominate the BEV new car sales, at 68% with BYD 19%, MG 10% and Kia 5%. Will be interesting to see how this changes over time.
Quote from: KW on Feb 09, 2023, 10:55 AMThanks to FB and Google, I think I have now seen every EV car being sold in NZ (except Tesla, because they don't pay for advertising) lol
And my conclusion is that they are all pretty ugly and boring. It seems 70's styling is back in ??? I'm not really sold on the Ioniq 5 or EV6 styling. So far the only one I really like is the Ford Mustang (which ironically is the one that loses money for Ford)
On the plus side, I did get invited to apply for a Hyundai market research session with free drinks, nibbles and $100 - here's hoping I get selected ;D
Don't think it will be cocktails though, you need to get invited to a Mercedes-Benz or BMW event for that, ask me how I know ;)
I quite like the Kia EV6 but the base model performance is a bit too sedate for my liking so if I did anything it would need to be on the all wheel drive model which is about $100K which gets me back to thinking I quite like my existing vehicle, so why bother. Had a look online at that electric Mustang the other day.
Looks bloated and overweight to my eye. If you want a Mustang I reckon, get a real one with a real V8 engine. Drove one a while back. They go hard and sound super raucous. 8) Why would anyone would buy an electric pretend / "neutered" Mustang when you can have the real thing which is so much more fun ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIeqpG0Ef8o
Yes try driving the box on wheel hire cars that are hybrids. Great mileage but really they are computers in a wheeled box... boring doesnt cover it be many women love them.....
"Tesla's Model Y was the #1 bestselling model in California in 2022 (with 87,257 registrations) and the Model 3 was the #2 bestselling model (with 78,934 registrations), both beating by a wide margin the Toyota RAV4 (59,794 registrations) and the Toyota Camry (55,967 registrations).
Toyota and Honda used to rule California. Going back to the 1990s, the Camry and the Civic fought over the top two slots.
In 2021, the Camry was still the #1 bestseller (61,599), chased by the Model Y (60,394). The Honda Civic had dropped to #3 (59,818), just ahead of #4, the RAV4 (59,157). The Model 3 was #5 (53,572).
So for the California auto market, it was quite a show in 2022: The year when Toyota and Honda models were dethroned, and not by Ford or by GM or whatever, but by EVs, and by a wide margin."
https://wolfstreet.com/2023/02/10/ev-sales-spiked-in-california-share-hit-17-in-2022-ice-vehicle-sales-plunged-first-uptick-in-electricity-sales-after-13-years-of-declines/
Cathy Wood reckons its going to $US1,500!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/markets-with-madison-tesla-bull-cathie-wood-sees-stock-at-us1500/D3T2EFXPWVARREPG3LDWP6UIIE/
Intersting reading the comments. I reckon this guy Richard C (not me) has hit the nail on the head
QuoteTesla had brilliant 1st mover advantage with EV's but the more mature automakers are catching up fast. Tesla's build quality issues are not yet solved and their quirky minimalist design is beginning to date. If Telsa are to continue dominance, they will need to release new designs and resolve build quality issues, all in the face of hugely increased competition from Chine (BYD), Kia, BMW and Mercedes. Right now they are dropping prices to retain market share, not a long term solution and not a path to support what is an over valued share price already when profit is taken in to account
I see Tesla in N.Z. dropped the Model 3 and Y prices $2,000 over the weekend.
"Right now they are dropping prices to retain market share, not a long term solution"
It is, when you send most of the others bust ;D
Remember, there is no more free money. Companies that are not making profits on stuff are going to go out of business. And quickly. All Tesla has to do is squeeze their competitors, so that the more cars they make the more money they lose. They have a couple of years of high interest rates to do a lot of damage. The first ICE car bans come into effect in 2030 - thats only 7 years away. Telsa is betting that ICE manufacturers cannot profitably make the transition, and its likely that they will be right.
This is what Amazon did post dot.com crash. Just squeezed competitors out of business, until they had 50% market share in every category they entered. Anyone that survived the squeeze, Amazon then bought out.
Don't expect Elon Musk to think inside the box. Ultimately I believe we are heading to a world where private ownership of cars are outlawed. We will move to an Uber system of single vehicle public transport, starting with human drivers but ultimately ending with self driving cars. So cars are going to become fleet vehicles, which means design is irrelevant. Sure a few die hards might want their own car, and want one that looks cool, but as more and more people live in garageless apartments the more they will become dependent on things like rideshare, Uber, community cars for hire etc.
Its no coincidence that Tesla is pushing into the fleet business, an area that most automakers avoid. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-07/tesla-cars-are-becoming-a-popular-choice-with-fleet-operators
And I wouldnt be surprised if Tesla and Uber merge down the track ;D
Quote from: KW on Feb 14, 2023, 11:40 AM"Right now they are dropping prices to retain market share, not a long term solution"
It is, when you send most of the others bust ;D
Remember, there is no more free money. Companies that are not making profits on stuff are going to go out of business. And quickly. All Tesla has to do is squeeze their competitors, so that the more cars they make the more money they lose. They have a couple of years of high interest rates to do a lot of damage. The first ICE car bans come into effect in 2030 - thats only 7 years away. Telsa is betting that ICE manufacturers cannot profitably make the transition, and its likely that they will be right.
This is what Amazon did post dot.com crash. Just squeezed competitors out of business, until they had 50% market share in every category they entered. Anyone that survived the squeeze, Amazon then bought out.
Don't expect Elon Musk to think inside the box. Ultimately I believe we are heading to a world where private ownership of cars are outlawed. We will move to an Uber system of single vehicle public transport, starting with human drivers but ultimately ending with self driving cars. So cars are going to become fleet vehicles, which means design is irrelevant. Sure a few die hards might want their own car, and want one that looks cool, but as more and more people live in garageless apartments the more they will become dependent on things like rideshare, Uber, community cars for hire etc.
Its no coincidence that Tesla is pushing into the fleet business, an area that most automakers avoid. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-07/tesla-cars-are-becoming-a-popular-choice-with-fleet-operators
And I wouldnt be surprised if Tesla and Uber merge down the track ;D
Even if I assume for a moment that your predictions of Teslas and Elon Musks strategies might be not worse than your statements about the rainfall non event you predicted for the North Island :p :
This does not mean that any of this is going to happen or even remotely likely.
Last time I checked most big car manufacturers were outrageously profitable (well, but Tesla - they provide a meagre PE of 200 or so) ... and at he same time all selling now a material number of electric cars.
Other than Musk do they know how to build cars ... and it might have missed your attention, but apart from the different engine do electric cars still need wheels and tyres and suspension and (some sort of chassis) and breakes and a power train and many other things. It is useful for all of these if you are experienced in building them.
Ah yes - and all of them can afford to cut prices much further without losing money than Tesla can with their meagre EPS (what is it this year - 80 cents for a nearly $200 share)? Compare that with e.g. Daimler earning 12 Euro per share (valued at 72 Euro) - PE = 6!
Let that sink in - and maybe try to get out of some of your rabbit holes (and off Twitter) before the latest deluge floods them ...
Quote from: BlackPeter on Feb 14, 2023, 12:48 PMLast time I checked most big car manufacturers were outrageously profitable (well, but Tesla - they provide a meagre PE of 200 or so) ... and at he same time all selling now a material number of electric cars.
They are profitable making ICE cars, which they will no longer be able to do shortly. If they have to cut prices on EV cars which are already marginal, they will lose money. I posted a chart showing what profits each car manufacturer makes on an EV. Its peanuts. A $2000 price cut pushes all bar GM into losses.
Have a look at Price to Free Cashflow. Tesla is trading at 8 times FCF, GM is negative 11.
Quote from: KW on Feb 14, 2023, 01:58 PMThey are profitable making ICE cars, which they will no longer be able to do shortly. If they have to cut prices on EV cars which are already marginal, they will lose money. I posted a chart showing what profits each car manufacturer makes on an EV. Its peanuts. A $2000 price cut pushes all bar GM into losses.
Have a look at Price to Free Cashflow. Tesla is trading at 8 times FCF, GM is negative 11.
OK - I don't follow GM (only historic interest in dinosaurs, no interest in gas guzzlers and I avoid US shares at any opportunity ...), but you might find that large Japanese as well as European car manufacturers are able to compete quite well in the EV market.
Wondering as well how Tesla will respond when a quite significant share of the new vehicle market will move to hydrogen technology (which is basically ICE) - but I am sure Elon will twitter it earlier (let that sink in) ... no need to wait.
Seriously - I guess who would buy any product from any company related to this d*ck?
Apparently Investors day was a bit disappointing. Shares dropped like a stone ending the day nearly 6% down.
Tesla gross margin disappointed today. Just over 18% and the street had expected 20%.
6 price cuts this year alone.
BYD, shaping up as Tesla's biggest rival, just dropped an absolute bombshell with a fully electric car for only U.S. $11.400 ! Oh my goodness, that's really thrown the cat amongst the pigeons !
https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/teslas-biggest-chinese-rival-drops-a-bombshell
Crickey, imagine that shipped here in RHD and the net cost after the Govt's $8,000 subsidy!
Still wont buy one not even for a dollar unless it was to sell it to someone for a profit...
An interesting look into where Elon might be going with Tesla.
https://www.news-daily.com/arena/thestreet/elon-musk-says-tesla-can-sell-cars-for-zero-profit/article_38d8fbbd-1f20-5381-a19c-deb696d29822.htm
"Tesla is in a uniquely strong strategic position because we're the only ones making cars that technically we could sell for zero profit for now, and then yield (https://www.thestreet.com/dictionary/y/yield) actually tremendous economics in the future through autonomy," Musk asserted. "No one else can do that."
Now that would be true disruption 8)
Quote from: KW on Apr 23, 2023, 12:37 PMAn interesting look into where Elon might be going with Tesla.
https://www.news-daily.com/arena/thestreet/elon-musk-says-tesla-can-sell-cars-for-zero-profit/article_38d8fbbd-1f20-5381-a19c-deb696d29822.htm
"Tesla is in a uniquely strong strategic position because we're the only ones making cars that technically we could sell for zero profit for now, and then yield (https://www.thestreet.com/dictionary/y/yield) actually tremendous economics in the future through autonomy," Musk asserted. "No one else can do that."
Now that would be true disruption 8)
Well, lets face it - Tesla is cutting margins because they have to. Chinese BYD (https://bydauto.co.nz/) was snapping for some time on Teslas heels, and now they are accelerating:
https://www.economist.com/business/2023/02/02/chinas-byd-is-overtaking-tesla-as-the-carmaker-extraordinaire
I think Tesla has already lost the race, and being run by an egomaniac certainly won't help them to catch up, but sure - Elon is always good for another stupid line like "Let that sink in". Probably time to fire half of Tesla's engineers to allow Tesla to run faster and ask the other half to work 24 hours a day.
He is a Twitter crushing twit ... and the people invested in Tesla feel the heat already. It will be still a looong way down from where the shares currently are. Never buy shares in a downtrend!
Just wondering - when did you start to show interest for companies on the way down? Tesla clearly is - or which magic criteria are you using these days? Maybe you should revisit your footer?
Quote from: BlackPeter on Apr 23, 2023, 12:57 PMJust wondering - when did you start to show interest for companies on the way down? Tesla clearly is - or which magic criteria are you using these days? Maybe you should revisit your footer?
I watch a lot of shares in a downtrend, I just dont buy them. I wait. And I'm watching Tesla 8) . A lot of my momentum investing relies upon a breakout from a bottom, preferably after having based for a while. And a new bull market requires new leaders, so you have to be looking out for them.
Most of my day is spent looking for stocks making a move up on volume, or setting alerts on resistant levels that get triggered by price moves. Breakout moves above the 200 day MA by definition require a stock to have been in a downtrend. Since the aim is not to buy the bottom, but the first or second move higher in a new uptrend, you have to be watching a lot of stocks and be ready to pounce on them in order to maximise your return.
If Tesla moves back in to an uptrend, I'll be buying. Until then, I just follow Elon's musings on Twitter and SpaceX launch videos lol
Quote from: KW on Apr 23, 2023, 03:52 PMI watch a lot of shares in a downtrend, I just dont buy them. I wait. And I'm watching Tesla 8) . A lot of my momentum investing relies upon a breakout from a bottom, preferably after having based for a while. And a new bull market requires new leaders, so you have to be looking out for them.
Most of my day is spent looking for stocks making a move up on volume, or setting alerts on resistant levels that get triggered by price moves. Breakout moves above the 200 day MA by definition require a stock to have been in a downtrend. Since the aim is not to buy the bottom, but the first or second move higher in a new uptrend, you have to be watching a lot of stocks and be ready to pounce on them in order to maximise your return.
If Tesla moves back in to an uptrend, I'll be buying. Until then, I just follow Elon's musings on Twitter and SpaceX launch videos lol
Fair enough, makes sense.
Though still not sure I share your admiration for the Elon guy :) - too much hot air.
But then - good on you for being able to make money out of hot air. Not my area of expertise;
Interesting article in the Herald (sorry, paywalled):
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/dream-car-a-nightmare-tesla-nz-sold-woman-brand-new-79000-model-3-with-multiple-scratches-to-paintwork/Q64SF6TBYBEOHINSS6RE2PFF5A/
Sounds like this Elon is a genius, he sells new cars with scratches in the paintwork and coffee stains in the interior ... and, yes, the technical specs (range) don't seem to be right either. Next he is fighting customers all the way through the courts to avoid fixing the problems.
Not a surprise - why should anybody who treats staff like slaves care for customers?
Tell your friends - buying a Tesla is a must for anybody who wants to own a substandard product and be treated by the seller like an annoying fly. Tesla must be a great investment, they punish their customers whether they like it or not. Oh, no - the share is on a downtrend, I wonder why?
I'm more amazed that a story about a Tesla with scratches is the top news story. But then as soon as Tucker Carlson announced he was moving to Twitter, I knew that the number of anti-Tesla stories would start ramping up, and I was not wrong.
If your biggest complaint about a Tesla is that it was scratched in transit and the incompetant panelbeaters in NZ are incapable of repairing it, then they're doing ok. Compare Ford as an example, which literally stop working as soon as they leave the dealership
https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/disgruntled-aussie-customers-call-out-ford-over-lemon-rangers/80c6dbca-91a0-40b5-98b0-b4d7b4b2a9ba
Quote from: KW on May 13, 2023, 07:43 PMI'm more amazed that a story about a Tesla with scratches is the top news story. But then as soon as Tucker Carlson announced he was moving to Twitter, I knew that the number of anti-Tesla stories would start ramping up, and I was not wrong.
If your biggest complaint about a Tesla is that it was scratched in transit and the incompetant panelbeaters in NZ are incapable of repairing it, then they're doing ok. Compare Ford as an example, which literally stop working as soon as they leave the dealership
https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/disgruntled-aussie-customers-call-out-ford-over-lemon-rangers/80c6dbca-91a0-40b5-98b0-b4d7b4b2a9ba
The article does not sound like it was an incompetent panel beater ... it sounds more like Tesla has a problem in doing the preparations for the paintwork. A panel beater does not need to expect to do the complete car if a new car comes to them to fix a few scratches.
Apart from the paintwork issues, it sounds however Tesla has major and systematic customer care issue.
But I guess if you feel that Tesla's customers care about Tucker Carlson's views, than this makes sense - people like that must have incredibly low standards and love to be lied at and kicked into the guts.
At the end however - it does not matter why negative reports appear about Tesla - low quality and bad customer service is long term bad for business.
I love it when the alt right fights their own dumb money :) ; Lets get out the popcorn ...
Win - win :);
Quote from: BlackPeter on May 14, 2023, 11:38 AMThe article does not sound like it was an incompetent panel beater ... it sounds more like Tesla has a problem in doing the preparations for the paintwork. A panel beater does not need to expect to do the complete car if a new car comes to them to fix a few scratches.
It was taken to a panelbeater who made it worse each time they touched it
"Since then a panel beater, appointed by Tesla, has attempted to remove the scratches five times over the four-month period."Each time there is more damage and the scratches are still there," she said."The third time the panels were still damaged and there were white marks that look like burns from a heat lamp on the car."The car was wrecked."
Quote from: KW on May 15, 2023, 02:12 PMIt was taken to a panelbeater who made it worse each time they touched it
"Since then a panel beater, appointed by Tesla, has attempted to remove the scratches five times over the four-month period.
"Each time there is more damage and the scratches are still there," she said.
"The third time the panels were still damaged and there were white marks that look like burns from a heat lamp on the car.
"The car was wrecked."
Well, if you insist its the panel beater, than clearly - it sounds like Tesla has not just significant customer service problems, they are not even able to select and manage capable suppliers. Allowing the same supplier to give you the run around for 5 months is pretty pathetic, isn't it? - and playing all these stupid games on the back of the customer is inexcusable. What idiot is running this company?
Maybe they would need somebody who knows how to run a company instead of an ego manic who only sees himself at the top plus a sourcing team knowing what its doing worth its salt? And don't let me start on their quality processes - this story sounds revolting, nobody in this organisation seems to care about the customer!
On the other hand - Customers are funny animals - they go away if they feel they are not wanted and pampered. Suppose this will happen to Tesla with the hype peak already fading away ... just another burnt out starlet.
Quote from: KW on Apr 23, 2023, 03:52 PMI watch a lot of shares in a downtrend, I just dont buy them. I wait. And I'm watching Tesla 8) . A lot of my momentum investing relies upon a breakout from a bottom, preferably after having based for a while. And a new bull market requires new leaders, so you have to be looking out for them.
Most of my day is spent looking for stocks making a move up on volume, or setting alerts on resistant levels that get triggered by price moves. Breakout moves above the 200 day MA by definition require a stock to have been in a downtrend. Since the aim is not to buy the bottom, but the first or second move higher in a new uptrend, you have to be watching a lot of stocks and be ready to pounce on them in order to maximise your return.
If Tesla moves back in to an uptrend, I'll be buying. Until then, I just follow Elon's musings on Twitter and SpaceX launch videos lol
Tesla seem to be in a pretty good uptrend the past month or so, are you tempted yet?
Quote from: Swala on May 30, 2023, 09:36 AMTesla seem to be in a pretty good uptrend the past month or so, are you tempted yet?
Still well below the MA200 - do you call that a pretty good uptrend? I guess everything else but Tesla seems to go up, so yes - Tesla is special ... but tempting?
Are you looking for shorting opportunities?
Both TSLA and F stocks jumped last week on news of a deal that will allow Ford EV's to charge at Tesla Supercharger stations in the U.S.A. and Canada.
So Tesla sticks its nose above its 200 day MA, coinciding with news that its now gained the top spot as the global number one best selling car.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/china-was-top-market-tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-q1-2023-05-30/
Is it too early to jump in, I would still be a little cautious. Its still got more work to do to get back into a sustainable uptrend, and I would like to see a vol breakout as well as a price one. And it needs to hurdle that resistance level at $206.
TESLA.png
I purchased last night with a 5 - 10 year horizon. I appreciate the road may well be rocky but firmly believe this company has tremendous upside.
You're probably right to think longer term. I think like may of the other big 'tech' companies out there it may come down first before it shoots up again. But then again I am mostly wrong.
Although not strictly a tech company (S&P) it appears to be just as cyclical and at times has a ridiculously high P/E, and then it comes down. And as is often the case the personality of the people at the top play a huge role. Mr Musk is no exception. The vehicles are popular but not perfect but should improve even more in time. Even F recently had only positives to say about TSLA and in fact struck a good deal with them last week.
But I am of opinion that the mega caps of the S&P are extremely overweight on the AI hype, and that includes TSLA. But who knows how high the share price will go before it takes a rest.
It certainly is a fun stick....enjoy.
;D https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/tesla-drivers-activate-bioweapon-defense-mode-protect-against-wildfire-smoke
Tesla drivers are switching on an advanced air filtration system known as "Bioweapon Defense Mode" to shield against Canadian wildfire smoke blanketing the US Mid-Atlantic and Northeast states.
Air quality alerts are at "hazardous (https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/worse-yesterday-dense-wildfire-smoke-moving-over-nations-capital)" levels across the Baltimore–Washington metropolitan area to New York City. The unhealthy air is causing eye irritation and inducing coughing among many people, prompting those with severe health issues to seek a doctor.
But those driving in certain Tesla vehicles are equipped with a HEPA filtration system capable of stripping the outside air of smoke and other harmful particles and systematically scrubbing the air inside the cabin to eliminate any trace of these particles. The result is the Bioweapon Defense Mode that drivers are switching on in a real-world test, proving that Tesla is ahead of the curve of major automakers.
Quote from: KW on Jun 09, 2023, 02:02 PMBut those driving in certain Tesla vehicles are equipped with a HEPA filtration system capable of stripping the outside air of smoke and other harmful particles and systematically scrubbing the air inside the cabin to eliminate any trace of these particles. The result is the Bioweapon Defense Mode that drivers are switching on in a real-world test, proving that Tesla is ahead of the curve of major automakers.
Jumped up publicity by Mr Musk, or other internet luminary having a laugh?
Hyundai have had hepafilters in their electric car air filtration zystems zince 2017, as have other ICE car makers before that.
https://pureflowair.com/collections/hyundai-ioniq-cabin-air-filters
No need to 'activate bioweapon defence mode'. The hepafilter is an in line passive ventilation system component that vorks 'all ze time' (as no doubt it does in the Tesla as vell).
RB
Quote from: Red Baron on Jun 09, 2023, 03:37 PMJumped up publicity by Mr Musk, or other internet luminary having a laugh?
Hyundai have had hepafilters in their electric car air filtration zystems zince 2017, as have other ICE car makers before that.
https://pureflowair.com/collections/hyundai-ioniq-cabin-air-filters
No need to 'activate bioweapon defence mode'. The hepafilter is an in line passive ventilation system component that vorks 'all ze time' (as no doubt it does in the Tesla as vell).
RB
"The automaker claims that the filter in the Model X is about 10 times larger than a normal car filter, and it is "100 times more effective than premium automotive filters," as it removes "at least 99.97% of fine particulate matter and gaseous pollutants, as well as bacteria, viruses, pollen and mold spores."
In the Model Y, Tesla activated the "bio-weapon defense mode," which is a function that basically pressurizes the cabin and forces all the air to go through the HEPA filter."
https://electrek.co/2022/01/26/tesla-demonstrates-hepa-filter-bio-weapon-defense-mode-keep-cabin-air-clean-video/
Quote from: KW on Jun 09, 2023, 04:16 PM"The automaker claims that the filter in the Model X is about 10 times larger than a normal car filter, and it is "100 times more effective than premium automotive filters," as it removes "at least 99.97% of fine particulate matter and gaseous pollutants, as well as bacteria, viruses, pollen and mold spores."
In the Model Y, Tesla activated the "bio-weapon defense mode," which is a function that basically pressurizes the cabin and forces all the air to go through the HEPA filter."
https://electrek.co/2022/01/26/tesla-demonstrates-hepa-filter-bio-weapon-defense-mode-keep-cabin-air-clean-video/
Interesteeng, and thanks for the vurther link. Pressurize the cabin to stop external leaks in vrom the door zeals. Then use a very large inlet vent vith a hepafilter the vidth of the car, vhich must then reduce to a smaller duct vith fan assistance to take the viltered outside air into the car. Yes that vould vork. But such a trick looks like a zolution looking for a problem, vhich is probably vhy such a thing has not been seen on passenger cars before. A zimpler zolution vould be to adjust the air intake in your car from fresh to recirculating, until you are clear of the polluted air zone. If that didn't vork in the place I lived, I am not sure I vould want to live in that place! Even then, a hepafilter vill not stop the colourless and odourless 'CO' and 'NOx' toxic gas pollutants.
In my view pressurising the cabin space is a 'zissy zolution'. An open air cockpit, goggles, and a leather helmet and jacket is the dress vor a 'bio-var'. And if the smoke gets too thick, then 'push the joystick' and 'up you go'.
RB
Quote from: Red Baron on Jun 09, 2023, 07:23 PMIn my view pressurising the cabin space is a 'zissy zolution'. An open air cockpit, goggles, and a leather helmet and jacket is the dress vor a 'bio-var'. And if the smoke gets too thick, then 'push the joystick' and 'up you go'.
RB
Username checks out :D :D
Quote from: Red Baron on Jun 09, 2023, 07:23 PMIn my view pressurising the cabin space is a 'zissy zolution'. An open air cockpit, goggles, and a leather helmet and jacket is the dress vor a 'bio-var'. And if the smoke gets too thick, then 'push the joystick' and 'up you go'.
RB
But there is no "dog mode" in an open air cockpit. If Snoopy says so, he's lying.
'And if the smoke gets too thick, then 'push the joystick' and 'up you go'.
Could be in trouble there, I think you'll find the opposite applies!
[/quote]
Quote from: Swala on Jun 10, 2023, 02:22 PM'And if the smoke gets too thick, then 'push the joystick' and 'up you go'.
Could be in trouble there, I think you'll find the opposite applies!
Damn eet! Eeez zat vhy I crashed?
RB
Tesla jumped 10% plus the past few days most likely on a reaction to its upgrade by Morgan Stanley highlighting those magic letters.... AI.
Quote from: Onemootpoint on Sep 15, 2023, 12:08 AMTesla jumped 10% plus the past few days most likely on a reaction to its upgrade by Morgan Stanley highlighting those magic letters.... AI.
Ark Invest thinks robotaxis could add $613bn in revenue by 2027. This is nearly eight times more than the company reported last year. RBC predicts $871bn in possible robotaxi revenue. Morgan Stanley takes this further by suggesting that supercomputer project Dojo could add $10tn to the company's total addressable market. As a result, Tesla's share price rose 10 per cent on Monday.
Exuberant value forecasts invite ridicule. But if Tesla's plans succeed, it would create a moat rivals cannot cross. Lex - FT.
Quote from: kiwi2007 on Sep 15, 2023, 11:47 AMArk Invest thinks robotaxis could add $613bn in revenue by 2027. This is nearly eight times more than the company reported last year. RBC predicts $871bn in possible robotaxi revenue. Morgan Stanley takes this further by suggesting that supercomputer project Dojo could add $10tn to the company's total addressable market. As a result, Tesla's share price rose 10 per cent on Monday.
Exuberant value forecasts invite ridicule. But if Tesla's plans succeed, it would create a moat rivals cannot cross. Lex - FT.
Musk has always been clear that he sees the future of cars as not being about personal ownership, but that people will switch to using corporate fleets of cars as a form of public transportation, ie. you simply hail one when you need one. Once you remove the driver from the equation, ride hailing becomes an incredibly cheap form of transport. Low EV running costs, no wages cost, lower insurance costs (because human drivers are worse than computers), no parking costs. From a community perspective, eliminating personal cars opens up a lot of space currently used for parking to be repurposed.
Interesting share trend: Down from a hype peak of over $400 to well below $200 (well, $167) und just publishing another extremely disappointing result.
Shareholders better rush - it might become harder to find a greater fool.
While I don't know, whether Tesla will survive ... if we compare its current PE with world market competitors - its share might be currently worth closer to $17 (which would be a PE of 7) instead of $166. Lots of space for further drops ...
Looks like The Wall Street Journal is reading this thread as well :) - wondering whether they used it as inspiration for their latest article about Tesla:
https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/tesla-sales-decline-elon-musk-20613265
(probably paywalled);
Very difficult for TSL to bet the China EV government supported industry as the China EV's simply have more models that are cheaper .
Quote from: Waltzing on Apr 10, 2024, 08:19 AMVery difficult for TSL to bet the China EV government supported industry as the China EV's simply have more models that are cheaper .
Yes, BYD took over from Tesla and Tesla lost the race, and its chair is too busy turning the US of A into a banana republic. So - I guess we can take Tesla as a prototype for the train accident happening currently with the US.
But hey, Tesla's have been hype fueled, but never good anyway - and anybody still holding Tesla shares deserves it. Somebody must pay, and who better than the idiots who did fund Musk in the first place?
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/20/business/elon-musk-tesla-trump.html
(paywalled, but I think 10 articles per month are free after registration)
its official CNBC this morning its a BUYERS STRIKE...
its been described to the likes of film furious bueller's day off....
Looks like sales in Germany Evil E cars just dropped 76 percent.... cant be true but that news went across one our server big curved games screen today...
Tesla down 50% from ATH.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2025/mar/10/china-retaliatory-tariffs-us-farm-goods-trade-war-recession-stock-markets-business-live-news
But no worries, this is just the beginning. Trumpflation and Trumpcession causes hype-deflation. The MAGA bubble starts to break.
BYD is even cooler than Tesla ... and they just started.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/26/cars/china-byd-profile-tesla-rival-intl-hnk/index.html
but hey, how could any company run by an moron like Elon be cool?