Wealth Taxes

Started by Waltzing, Apr 26, 2023, 07:44 PM

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Waltzing

""Government debt is forecast to be nearly 42% of GDP by next year."

its a run away train ... LBA they will tax everything they can from their paint it RED report...

LBA (lazy bunch of A....)  ... get out and create and sell stuff...its what makes an economy grow...

Minimoke

Quote from: KW on Apr 30, 2023, 07:17 PMWhen I moved back from Australia I didnt think I was missing out on a lot.  And but for Jacinda Ardern and Co I probably would be pretty happy still. But the country has gone to hell over the last 3 years, and now I do realise what I am missing out on. Like a functioning health system for starters.  And not having to drive everywhere at 30 kmph.   And not being rorted an arm and a leg everytime I want to get on an airplane and go somewhere.  And the crime is so bad its like living in Detroit.  And I miss being an English speaking country instead of the bizarre pidgen version people seem to speak these days.  I've been looking at real estate in Queensland and its just reminded me of how much nicer everything is over there. 

The taxes are a huge factor for me because almost all my income is capital gains.  So I prefer not to surrender 30%+ of it to the Govt.  But if that changes, then I will be choosing my next place of residence based on lifestyle factors not tax ones.  And I don't think I will be the only one. 

I'm still young enough to go back to Australia and funnel everything through a self managed super fund for the next 10-15 years and avoid paying taxes that way.  CGT within a super fund is only 10% for assets held longer than a year.  The Australian tax system is quite complicated, but it has a lot of tax minimisation opportunities that are not available in NZ.  This is probably what a Govt as financially illiiterate as Labour won't understand - in places like Australia, nobody pays the full tax rate.  You have salary sacrificing, super concessions, self managed super funds, tax rebates, tax credits, negative gearing against personal income ......  Even the middle class will be better off organising their tax affairs in Australia than staying in NZ, without even factoring in the higher incomes. 
Wait to you see their plans for Nz's new school curriculum. It literally will center on the Treaty of Waitangi.

So that's oil and gas gone. Water going to maori via Te Mana o te Wai, health split into Maori and Other authorities, agriculture to be quartered via Climate Change decisions, a PM who can't define what a "woman" is, police standing back while women get assaulted. And now a potential "wealth Tax" we all may as well pack our bags for Venezuela. Because it won't be worse than here.

BlackPeter

Quote from: Minimoke on May 01, 2023, 05:05 PMWait to you see their plans for Nz's new school curriculum. It literally will center on the Treaty of Waitangi.

So that's oil and gas gone. Water going to maori via Te Mana o te Wai, health split into Maori and Other authorities, agriculture to be quartered via Climate Change decisions, a PM who can't define what a "woman" is, police standing back while women get assaulted. And now a potential "wealth Tax" we all may as well pack our bags for Venezuela. Because it won't be worse than here.

Well, for me - if the choice is Venezuela or NZ, I know where I will go, and it won't be one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Venezuela ranks an a scale of 14 out of 100 on the corruption index, only Somalia (12), South Sudan (13) and Syria (13 as well) are slightly worse.

Anyway - each for their own, when is your plane leaving? I hear Somalia might be even more interesting (slightly more corrupt), and they can even throw in a nice little war.

Untamed

I respectfully suggest you do that then. Funny how the people who are most vocal with their threats to leave NZ, never actually do it.

Quote from: Minimoke on May 01, 2023, 05:05 PMwe all may as well pack our bags for Venezuela. Because it won't be worse than here.

Minimoke

Quote from: BlackPeter on May 01, 2023, 05:23 PMWell, for me - if the choice is Venezuela or NZ, I know where I will go, and it won't be one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Venezuela ranks an a scale of 14 out of 100 on the corruption index, only Somalia (12), South Sudan (13) and Syria (13 as well) are slightly worse.

Anyway - each for their own, when is your plane leaving? I hear Somalia might be even more interesting (slightly more corrupt), and they can even throw in a nice little war.
so. Corruption is your measure. Who has just given and accepted party political donations in nz?

Minimoke

Quote from: Untamed on May 01, 2023, 05:39 PMI respectfully suggest you do that then. Funny how the people who are most vocal with their threats to leave NZ, never actually do it.

I've already left nz. Came back and now reconsidering. 1 family member has already gone. Another will be leaving with in the year.

Untamed

OK, but I'm betting you didn't go to Venezuela. So maybe stop with the dramatic "anywhere in the world would be better than NZ" narrative. Its nonsense and we all know it. The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there.

I'm not saying there are not other places in the world that would be great places to live - of course there are. New Zealand is not perfect, but its a damned sight better place to live than many countries. 

Quote from: Minimoke on May 01, 2023, 08:46 PMI've already left nz. Came back and now reconsidering. 1 family member has already gone. Another will be leaving with in the year.

Minimoke

Quote from: Untamed on May 01, 2023, 09:02 PMOK, but I'm betting you didn't go to Venezuela. So maybe stop with the dramatic "anywhere in the world would be better than NZ" narrative. Its nonsense and we all know it. The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there.

I'm not saying there are not other places in the world that would be great places to live - of course there are. New Zealand is not perfect, but its a damned sight better place to live than many countries. 

I've been to venezuela and loved it. Somalia i haven't been to. Tempting!

BlackPeter

Quote from: Minimoke on May 01, 2023, 08:43 PMso. Corruption is your measure. Who has just given and accepted party political donations in nz?

Quite dumb comment if I may say so.

There is obviously no country in the world free of corruption, given that they are all run by humans (though I hear that the reminder of the animal kingdom is corruptible as well :P ). Of course is there corruption in NZ as anywhere else, but it is the degree which makes the difference.

A bit of pain is something most people are able to take, excruciating pain however not so.

Same thing with corruption, which creates in countries like Venezuela a dysfunctional society - this makes it that corrosive.

You didn't tell us though, when your plane is leaving - I can hardly wait to get your regular reports from the land of your desires :P ;

Minimoke

Quote from: BlackPeter on May 02, 2023, 08:54 AMQuite dumb comment if I may say so.

There is obviously no country in the world free of corruption, given that they are all run by humans (though I hear that the reminder of the animal kingdom is corruptible as well :P ). Of course is there corruption in NZ as anywhere else, but it is the degree which makes the difference.

A bit of pain is something most people are able to take, excruciating pain however not so.

Same thing with corruption, which creates in countries like Venezuela a dysfunctional society - this makes it that corrosive.

You didn't tell us though, when your plane is leaving - I can hardly wait to get your regular reports from the land of your desires :P ;
You are welcome to say whatever you please.

However I'd point out that corruption, and other negative things, don't just happen over night. They are an evolutionary thing. Often sparked with one opportunity that a person gets away with. Which leads to another and another until the whole thing starts to break down.

This process of erosion (not just corruption, but democracy as well) is something we are starting to experience in New Zealand. Some can't see it. Some  choose to ignore it and some choose to quieten those who raise it.

KW

Quote from: Minimoke on May 02, 2023, 09:42 AMThis process of erosion (not just corruption, but democracy as well) is something we are starting to experience in New Zealand. Some can't see it. Some  choose to ignore it and some choose to quieten those who raise it.

I see NZ heading more down the path of South Africa and ultimately, Zimbabwe.  As the productive members of society flee, those left in charge ensure that the country becomes a failed state. "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen". 
Don't drink and buy shares in a downtrend, you bloody idiot.

BlackPeter

Quote from: KW on May 02, 2023, 11:32 AMI see NZ heading more down the path of South Africa and ultimately, Zimbabwe.  As the productive members of society flee, those left in charge ensure that the country becomes a failed state. "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen".

Jeez - I guess we are now far off the thread title, but this is a particularly ridiculous political statement.

Wondering what must have happened to you - but your comparison with South Africa (if you are referring to the apartheid years) and Zimbabwe are extremely offensive to anybody who had to suffer under the respective regimes and the only thing they demonstrate is your cluelessness.

You clearly have no idea how racist autocracies work ... and how it feels to live in them.

Try to get out of your rabbit hole ...

Minimoke

Quote from: KW on May 02, 2023, 11:32 AMI see NZ heading more down the path of South Africa and ultimately, Zimbabwe.  As the productive members of society flee, those left in charge ensure that the country becomes a failed state. "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen".
They may not be bad comparisons. But some from Venezuela still apply. Like back just a couple of decades ago they passed the  Social Responsibility on Radio and Television law which legally prevented media and the internet from broadcasting not only "hate" speech but also words that altered public order or caused anxiety. Sound familiar. Or how the goverenmtn tried to take more control of what was said in the media - like we did with the public interest journalism fund.

Then there was the centralised control  of universities - muck like what has happened to our polytechs. The temporary granting of supreme powers (much like we have under current covid laws) , govt overview of banking (like we are doing with our banking review and threats), increasing taxes for flood recovery, an attempt to stop politicians voting against bills (like how we tried to sneak through the entrenchment clause), taking of land deemed under utilised, in the same way we take farmers land and deem it an areas of cultural interest.

Wedges. Thin ends!

KW

#28
Quote from: BlackPeter on May 02, 2023, 11:49 AMJeez - I guess we are now far off the thread title, but this is a particularly ridiculous political statement.

Wondering what must have happened to you - but your comparison with South Africa (if you are referring to the apartheid years) and Zimbabwe are extremely offensive to anybody who had to suffer under the respective regimes and the only thing they demonstrate is your cluelessness.

No, I am referring to their current condition.   Maybe you should google what that is like. 

This is what happens when productive people flee the country.  https://theconversation.com/south-africas-economy-has-taken-some-heavy-body-blows-can-it-recover-183165

Zimbabwe ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe#:
In its early years, Zimbabwe experienced strong growth and development. Wheat production for non-drought years was proportionally higher than previously, and the tobacco industry was thriving. Economic indicators for the country were strong.
From 1991 to 1996, the Zimbabwean ZANU–PF President Robert Mugabe embarked on an Economic Structural Adjustment Programme (ESAP) that had serious negative effects on Zimbabwe's economy. In the late 1990s, the government instituted land reforms intended to evict white landowners and place their holdings in the hands of black farmers. However, many of the new farmers had no experience or training in agriculture. From 1999 to 2009, the country experienced a sharp drop in food production and in all other sectors. The banking sector also collapsed, with farmers unable to obtain loans for capital development. Food output fell 45%, and manufacturing output fell by 29% in 2005, 26% in 2006 and 28% in 2007. Unemployment rose to 80%.[13] Life expectancy dropped.[14] White people fled the country in masses taking much of the nation's capital.

Just substitute "evicting white landowners" for "closing down 25% of farms and forcing the rest to sell of their land to Chinese investors to grow trees for carbon credits" and you end up in the same place.  NZ is an agricultural nation, and there is no industry that is capable of taking over from agriculture to support the economy. So when it goes, so does NZ's prosperity.  There will be no private capital available to fund investment in business because all the wealthy have fled, and anyone who aspires to build a business will do so elsewhere where there is a bigger and more affluent market and where the Govt doesnt stick its hand out to confiscate the wealth you've worked hard to build. 
Don't drink and buy shares in a downtrend, you bloody idiot.

Minimoke

Quote from: KW on May 02, 2023, 01:11 PMNo, I am referring to their current condition.   Maybe you should google what that is like. 

This is what happens when productive people flee the country.  https://theconversation.com/south-africas-economy-has-taken-some-heavy-body-blows-can-it-recover-183165

Zimbabwe ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe#:
In its early years, Zimbabwe experienced strong growth and development. Wheat production for non-drought years was proportionally higher than previously, and the tobacco industry was thriving. Economic indicators for the country were strong.
From 1991 to 1996, the Zimbabwean ZANU–PF President Robert Mugabe embarked on an Economic Structural Adjustment Programme (ESAP) that had serious negative effects on Zimbabwe's economy. In the late 1990s, the government instituted land reforms intended to evict white landowners and place their holdings in the hands of black farmers. However, many of the new farmers had no experience or training in agriculture. From 1999 to 2009, the country experienced a sharp drop in food production and in all other sectors. The banking sector also collapsed, with farmers unable to obtain loans for capital development. Food output fell 45%, and manufacturing output fell by 29% in 2005, 26% in 2006 and 28% in 2007. Unemployment rose to 80%.[13] Life expectancy dropped.[14] White people fled the country in masses taking much of the nation's capital.
Same in NZ where the govt is proposing to take all water resources away from locals and give the control  / decision making on all waters (as defined by the Resource management Act) over to iwi who have no more skill at running water resources as anyone else.

Climate change policy is specifically targeting a reduction in food output. And Fair Pay Agreements do not promote productivity or assist manufacturing in any way at all.

Alreasdy we have approx 700,000 new zealnaders living in Australia and probably around another 300,000 living oelsewher offshore. 1million people offsore with 5.6m onshore. Lets see how those numbers  keep tracking over time.

In the year ended Feb 2023 we lost net 17,300 new Zealanders. Most resident visas are people coming in from India, China and Phillipnes. So its fair to say we are more attractive than those countries.